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At age 62, I can only sleep about five hours per night. That leaves me refreshed and seems to be "normal" these days, but I used to get around eight hours sleep when I was younger.

Usually that's not an issue ---- I simply keep myself busy until I'm drowsy and then go to bed.

However, it is an issue when I'm trying to fit in to the sleeping schedules of normal groups. Tossing and turning for hours is UNPLEASANT.

Further, I was out backpacking over the holiday. It get dark about 8PM, and I got tire3d of tossing and turning in the dark on hard ground until about 1 AM before I could get to sleep. That was after doing a six mile hike involving 1700 feet of elevation gain and 400 feet of elevation loss, so I'd had a day that did tire me out.

I don't want to take pills. Anyone have any bright ideas?


Seattle Pioneer
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one sheep, two sheep, three sheep and on......
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at age 66...I sleep most nights 5.5 to 6.5 hours...then wake up...... usually decide to go to the bathroom......get back in bed.....

I hit the hay most nights at 10pm when home...if I'm traveling, maybe 9 pm......

Awake at 4 am...5 am...if i exercise moderately...or talk for an hour or two........well, I sleep another hour or two...... if I exercise too much...I sleep less, with sleep apnea rearing its ugly head.....waking up too many times....


I dunno....just get enough exercise every day to tire you out.

I turn on a radio when I wake up ..listen to the Midnight Trucker program on many of the clear channels...good right wing radio.....and usually sometime later I fall asleep and the next thing I know it is an hour or two later...and time to get up.


Yeah, it is a bummer if you are with people who go to bed at 3am, sleep till noon.....

Youngsters and teenagers and 20s folks tend to get sleepy at 2 or 3 am and sleep till noon.

Older folks get sleepy right after sunset..and are 'awake' at 6am or earlier for the most part...just part of the aging process.

I don't do well at parties that start at 9 or 10pm......


t.
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Some sobering information on the subject

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120905141614.ht...

Gordon (Who seems to require less sleep at age 72 than say 55)
Atlanta
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I find the antihistamine Chlortrimeton very effective in helping me sleep. That's a brand name -- its chemical name is chlorpheniramine and various stores have their own house brands. Its a holdover from before the days of non-drowsy antihistamines. I take half to 3/4 of a 4mg tablet about two hours before I want to go to sleep. It not only helps me get to sleep but it also helps me get back to sleep if I wake up too early.

I know you said you didn't want to take pills but this feels much more benign to me than pills I've tried that are aimed directly at sleeplessness, rather than address it as a side effect. I've also tried the antihistamine Benadryl. It works but it leaves an unpleasant hangover.

YMMV. There are folks who are not made drowsy by chlorpheniramine and others who love Benadryl.

--fleg
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Now, if we could only get the makers of Benadryl to put it in a bottle like other OTC drugs. I've stabbed myself more than once trying to open those little child proof containers.
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if we could only get the makers of Benadryl to put it in a bottle like other OTC drugs. I've stabbed myself more than once trying to open those little child proof containers.

You can get Benadryl in a bottle at Costco. It's a big bottle, something like 400 tablets. But it's only around $5, so if you only take 395 of them before the expiration date, it's still a good deal.

--fleg
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<< one sheep, two sheep, three sheep and on...... >>



Heh, heh! That's no help, but you get a rec!



Seattle Pioneer
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<<Youngsters and teenagers and 20s folks tend to get sleepy at 2 or 3 am and sleep till noon.>>


My experience is that boys WHOP HAVE AN ACTIVE DAY OF EXERCISE drop off to sleep easily at 8-10 Pm or whenever it's "lights out." I see that in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

I always tell Cub Scouts that they need to get in their bunks and then they can talk as long as they want. Ten minutes later, they are always asleep.

I used to be able to do that, and it's very tough that I can't do that now.



Seattle Pioneer
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Costco??? lol...we live 10 miles from the Walmart & Sams Club home offices. The only company brave enough to take them on was Target, and I hope they are doing well, I'd hate to see them leave.

Perhaps I can find it at Sams Club, thanks for the hint.
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<< Some sobering information on the subject

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120905141614.ht......

Gordon (Who seems to require less sleep at age 72 than say 55)
Atlanta >>


Thanks --- I didn't need that!



Seattle Pioneer
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I can take a 30 minute nap watching re runs on TV in the afternoon...no problem....... just nod off if the program isn't interesting, or I've been doing some work around the house.....


no problem if I'm busy all day. No need for a nap.


AT 10pm....I think it is about 3 seconds from the time my head hits the pillow till I'm asleep most nights. Not awake long enough to count. then once every 2 or 3 weeks, something is bothering me and it takes a half hour or more ...sometimes 2 or 3 hours to fall asleep.


Don't eat

1) chocolate at dinner

2) coffee or caffeine drinks after 2pm

or anything else with 'hidden' caffeine....


or sometimes spicy food will do it...and almost never eat after 8 pm...at least if I want to go to sleep in 2 hours....


You'll have to judge your own reaction to alcohol. FOr some it helps. for others it hinders sleep.



t.
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I was always a "night" person and remain so. I usually go to bed around 1:00 AM, read, catch up on CNN or a recorded program, and fall asleep around 2:00 AM; get up at 10:30 AM to take the dog for a walk, go back to bed for couple of hours (actually going back to sleep), and then get up for good. (Sometimes I do get up during the night to make a trip to the loo.)

Donna (who usually feels very rested after the second round of sleep.)
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SP:

Some good old sex will knock you out! Healthy, too! ;)

Vermonter
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SP:

A lot of us feel comfortable with less sleep. I don't think there is a "normal" for all of us. For me, 6 hours or so has always been "normal", and it still is. My wife needs 8-9 AND may nap in the afternoon, too, regardless of what we do. However, caffeine CAN be a killer! I no longer eat chocolate, drink coffee or drink a diet Coke after noon!

I quietly get up, if need be, and sometimes can then go baclto sleep after a cookie or something.

Vermonter
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Costco??? lol...we live 10 miles from the Walmart & Sams Club home offices. The only company brave enough to take them on was Target, and I hope they are doing well, I'd hate to see them leave.

Perhaps I can find it at Sams Club, thanks for the hint. - Bobcatkitty


--------------------------

Walmart has generic Benadryl. And it comes in an easy to access bottle instead of those annoying blister packs too.
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<<However, caffeine CAN be a killer! I no longer eat chocolate, drink coffee or drink a diet Coke after noon!>>


I avoid caffeine and don't do coffee, tea and such at all. I wasn't caffeinated at all on the occasions I've described.

I would like to thank those who have posted for their counsel and advice, and invite any further suggestions people may have.



Seattle Pioneer
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Hey SP,

The key ingredient in Benadryl and also many OTC sleep aides is called Diphenhydramine. I know my local Walgreen's store carries it and it is a heck of a lot less expensive then Benadryl. IIRC like a few dollars for a couple hundred 25mg capsules in a easy to open plastic bottle.

HTH

Rich
Arizona
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SP, stockmover is right that the key ingredient to look for is diphenhydramine. I've found that sometimes it's much cheaper to get this in the "allergy" section of the pharmacy (Walgreen's, Walmart, etc.) than in the "sleep aid" section.

culcha
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Thank you.


It sounds like experimenting with this kind of mild sleep aid would be worth while.



Seattle Pioneer
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Youngsters and teenagers and 20s folks tend to get sleepy at 2 or 3 am and sleep till noon.

Older folks get sleepy right after sunset..and are 'awake' at 6am or earlier for the most part...just part of the aging process.


Not this old folk. I am a night person, always have been. Hate to get up early...alarm at 8 a.m. and may not be out of bed till 45min later. Bedtime around 12:30-1a.m and if I have computer work to do, I may be up past 2a.m.

Rarely do I nap during any part of the day/evening.

Birgit
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This is the sleep aid in Tylenol PM
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SP,

From my experience I stay away from any Benadryl, Tavist-d, etc. It is BAD for you prostate. Will tighten that prostate up and you be waking up more frequently at night to pee. Wake up very tired after 8 hours of sleep (at least you thought you were sleeping). Read the back label warning about prostate. It's no joke.

My brother has used Melatonin for Sleep and it seemed ok.

That's my experience.

I agree about staying away from caffeine, chocolate (has caffeine), spicy foods, etc.

Roger
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<< SP,

From my experience I stay away from any Benadryl, Tavist-d, etc. It is BAD for you prostate. Will tighten that prostate up and you be waking up more frequently at night to pee. >>



Thanks for the warning.


It's after midnight and probably another hour or more before I get to sleep --- then up at 6 AM.

Really not a problem when I'm home and have a variety of activities I can do.

But I can't conform to a common sleeping schedule when I'm with other people.

I enjoyed rediscovering backpacking over Labor Day weekend, but long sleepless nights were agonizing. It wasn't an issue decades ago. I got tired hiking and I slept easily. Now I can't do that.

I appear to be frozen out of a desirable activity by my sleeping schedule.

A year ago I was a volunteer at a Boy Scout Camp for a week. Great fun and useful service during the day --- and agonizing tossing and turning for hours every night, unable to sleep until 1 AM and then waking up at 5 AM or whatever hours before anyone else.


Seattle Pioneer
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From my experience I stay away from any Benadryl, Tavist-d, etc. It is BAD for you prostate. Will tighten that prostate up and you be waking up more frequently at night to pee. Wake up very tired after 8 hours of sleep (at least you thought you were sleeping). Read the back label warning about prostate. It's no joke.

My brother has used Melatonin for Sleep and it seemed ok.

Must say, I myself haven't had any experience like that. In fact, I'm already getting up several times a night to go to the bathroom, and with diphenhydramine (the ingredient in things like Benadryl that makes you sleep), I got up to go less often, I guess because I was sleeping so well.

I also take melatonin. In fact, sometimes I take both. I think melatonin is more for getting you to fall asleep in the first place, and diphenhydramine is more for getting a good long night of sleep.

Melatonin doesn't make me fall back asleep if I do wake up in the middle of the night. It seems to work best when as a nighttime "starter."

In any case, I would take either (or both) about 30 minutes before retiring. Then I can actually feel myself geting drowsier ...

I don't take either of these in the same evening that I've had some alcohol though.

culcha
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