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Didn't Obama promise to
1. half the deficit?
2. heal the planet?
3. lower the seas?
4. stop partisan politics?
5. lower unemployment?
6. fix the economy?
7. stop global warming?
8. kill the coal industry?
9. raise gas to $10/gallon?
10.Improve America's image abroad?

Amongst other promises.

Clearly the electorate believed the rhetoric.

I wonder how they would rate his performance in these areas?
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I had a long talk with my son on Sunday about the election. He says Obama is "inspiring" and that anything he didn't accomplish is because of the Republicans.
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He says Obama is "inspiring" and that anything he didn't accomplish is because of the Republicans.

Just a thought... do you ever ask him to provide examples of this Republican obstructionism? And when the Dems stand in the way of GOP initiatives, why is that not obstructionism?

Do policies ever rise or fall on their own merit, or is everything "Dems - good, GOP - bad"?

I am just glad that DD never went to college.
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wolverine wrote: Just a thought... do you ever ask him to provide examples of this Republican obstructionism?

Unfortunately, he accept Democratic talking points as gospel. I, however, respond with non-partisan sources, such as the Congressional Budget Office.
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Unfortunately, he accept Democratic talking points as gospel

I'm sure you've challenged him to think for himself once or twice.
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He thinks Obamacare is crucial to the survival of the Republic because health care constitutes 30% (+/-) of GDP, to-wit:

I understand the concerns about the integrity of free enterprise, but I think that when it comes to the health of our citizenry, in this one area alone, profit should take a back seat. Similar to the way that the country agreed to band together and pay more taxes, buy bonds, etc, during WWII because the future of America was at stake, so do I believe that we need to suck it up and do anything we can to reduce healthcare spending and improve the health of our citizenry. I'm not saying corporations need to be put in prison. I'm saying they need to wake up to how important it is for everyone to be insured. If you are able to insure your employees--even if it cuts into your profit margins--you should. Again, it's both a moral and an economic issue for the country as a whole, even though it may adversely affect a corporation's profits. Just eat the 14 cents per [Papa John] pizza or charge consumers 14 cents more. Don't say it won't make you competitive any longer when you're expanding rapidly and giving away 2 million free pizzas at part of a nationally syndicated advertising campaign, or when Wal-Mart is the 10th most profitable company in America.

I'm not saying corporations and wealthy people should subsidize new iPads for everyone, or clothes or food stamps or even education (another essential, yet underfunded component of a thriving society). I'm saying they should subsidize, to some extent, our most precious commodity--our health. That's the singular area where I believe that government needs to force an antidote to human greed.


Of course, I corrected his perception that healthcare is more than 18% of GDP by providing him with this link directly from the White House.
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I understand the concerns about the integrity of free enterprise, but I think that when it comes to the health of our citizenry, in this one area alone, profit should take a back seat

Does he not know what motivates people to discover new drugs? Work longer hours? Go the extra mile? How much of his labors does he give away for free?


Similar to the way that the country agreed to band together and pay more taxes, buy bonds, etc, during WWII because the future of America was at stake, so do I believe that we need to suck it up and do anything we can to reduce healthcare spending and improve the health of our citizenry.

If that's his concern, he'd going down a well traveled road of failure. You gave UCLA good money to get such muddled thinking. You should demand a refund.

I believe that he should "suck it up" and pay for his own health care. His opinion is just as valid as mine, and I don't put my hand in his pocket.

I'm not saying corporations need to be put in prison.

Such a guy.


I'm saying they need to wake up to how important it is for everyone to be insured.

Someone risks capital, works 20 hour days, services customers, etc... and he tells others to "wake up?" Others are suppose to work for his unearned benefit?

If you are able to insure your employees--even if it cuts into your profit margins--you should.

Mighty free with someone else's money. I beleive that he should cut into his profit margin and give away all of his stuff, not mine, not yours, his.

Hypocritical blowhard.


Again, it's both a moral and an economic issue for the country as a whole, even though it may adversely affect a corporation's profits.

Liberals preaching morality as they stick their hands in your pocket and force their views up on you at the point of a gun. How do you not vomit when reading this crapola?

Just eat the 14 cents per [Papa John] pizza or charge consumers 14 cents more. Don't say it won't make you competitive any longer when you're expanding rapidly and giving away 2 million free pizzas at part of a nationally syndicated advertising campaign, or when Wal-Mart is the 10th most profitable company in America.

He needs a trip to Clues-R-Us. One is a marketing expense designed to increase business LT, the other is mooching.

I'm not saying corporations and wealthy people should subsidize new iPads for everyone, or clothes or food stamps or even education (another essential, yet underfunded component of a thriving society).

Does this dolt realize that he who has the gold makes the rules? Once the power trippers get control over you, they'll exploit you. Don't they teach history at UCLA?

Everyone is "greedy," except him. He sticks his hand into someone else's pocket, but that's not greed. I want something and YOU should pay for it. Only he is fit to determine how others spend their money.

I'm saying they should subsidize, to some extent, our most precious commodity--our health. That's the singular area where I believe that government needs to force an antidote to human greed.

What a guy!!! The cure for human behavior. And he's got the secret.

I don't know how you stand this drivel.
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You may find this interesting CC, Here's the transcript but the video is at the link. The transcript is a little jumbled but you can make it out.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000129180&play=1

friday is papa john's appreciation day. that is right. started on facebook by a fan named daniel wetter. john has a problem with obama care. many franchiz operators are going to cut hours to part-time to comply with the cost. show up to papa john's on friday with economic freedom on top. according to the watchdog group, freedom watch, growing companies are citing the healthcare law. if i'm forced to do this, what will i tell those people whose jobs i will have to eliminate? the cost of your plan is simply a cost that will cause us to eliminate jobs. all right. that principle has not gonna way. to talk more about the economic evils of the employer mandate here now is betsy mccoy. welcome back. so one of the things that we know about the questions of this election is that obamacare is going to survive and then some. tell me about the employer mandate it is the one that herman cane is talking about. it is going to cause workers their job all together. this law says that employers with 50 or more full time workers have to provide insurance. a one size, fits all, plan that costs about twice as much that many employers currently offer. it adds 1.79 per hour to the cost of hirinll time worker. if you are adding entry level people. i don't think my neurosurgeon is going to like that. let me ask you this, it is plies to companies with 50 or more. now, in terms of hours worked it applies to 30 hours and they are knocking them down to 28 hours? is. you are going to hit many fast food places and ours say ing at least a third of employers even higher for those who know the details with this law. that thing looks frayed. companies that to have full-time employees are going to have to pay a fine. and that is every hour. ise firms, they take the insurance off and send the workers into the exchange pool and medicaid. that is going to boost the cost. i don't think that is figured into the estimates. the government actuaries have said. fewer will get theinsurance. only washington could create a mandate that reduces the number of people who get the insurance. they go into the pool. or number of people who work at ds pizza. lower paid people. they will be eligible people for other states. some of them are going to be unemployed because states have the option of joining th expansion and right now they don't have to. if you have a person working at the pizza joint who doesn't have kids that person is going to be uninsured under this law. under this law, if you sell your house, you have to pay another 3.8% surtax on that? do you think people know that? home sales? there are a lot of surprises in this law that people are beginning to realize. if you sell your house and make a gain that pushes your income. you have that in addition to that capital gains tax. you heard it there.
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CC and Wolf, you do realize that there are alot of scientific studies that show one's choice in politics is actually determined by genetics.....it's an aspect of personality, which is determine significantly by genes. Obviously there is no single gene or set of genes for politics. But what has been found is that basic facets of personalities are affected by genes one receives in the womb. Not much you can do about it. And these basic inherited personality traits will determine which politics seem more seemly to them. Remember, we're talking basic personality....not more superficial stuff.

Now, that doesn't mean that skills, higher level behaviors, and memories cannot be affected by parental teachings and supervision. Yes, you can affect skills and habits, but you as a parent, will NOT affect basic personality to a great degree.....you already did that when you swap DNA with your partner.

One of the most overblown thoughts of our time.....once your kid is an adult, you had very little influence. You did your part when you swaps DNA at conception.
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CC and Wolf, you do realize that there are alot of scientific studies that show one's choice in politics is actually determined by genetics.....it's an aspect of personality, which is determine significantly by genes. Obviously there is no single gene or set of genes for politics. But what has been found is that basic facets of personalities are affected by genes one receives in the womb. Not much you can do about it. And these basic inherited personality traits will determine which politics seem more seemly to them. Remember, we're talking basic personality....not more superficial stuff.

Now, that doesn't mean that skills, higher level behaviors, and memories cannot be affected by parental teachings and supervision. Yes, you can affect skills and habits, but you as a parent, will NOT affect basic personality to a great degree.....you already did that when you swap DNA with your partner.

One of the most overblown thoughts of our time.....once your kid is an adult, you had very little influence. You did your part when you swaps DNA at conception.
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You mean her only recourse at this point is a taser?
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Now, that doesn't mean that skills, higher level behaviors, and memories cannot be affected by parental teachings and supervision. Yes, you can affect skills and habits, but you as a parent, will NOT affect basic personality to a great degree.....you already did that when you swap DNA with your partner.

Considering epigenetics, how can you be so sure?
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You mean her only recourse at this point is a taser?


I believe that was used on the Chi Bears during the game....but they still lost.
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You mean her only recourse at this point is a taser?


Genetic wiring won't be affected by shocks to the electrical wiring.
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You mean her only recourse at this point is a taser?


Genetic wiring won't be affected by shocks to the electrical wiring.
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How do you explain people who start out a certain way and then become liberal or conservative, the opposite of what they were before? I know i started out more liberal, then you have people like Arianna Huffington who used to be conservative etc. etc.
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Considering epigenetics, how can you be so sure?


I'm not sure what epegenetics brings new to the table. You are still constrained by your genes. Yes, your genes may switch off or on depending on what it's subjected to, depending on your environment. So in a sense, your genes "change", but it's still constrained by what happens if it's "ON" and what happens if its "OFF" depending on your actions. It may be a BIT different or VERY different whether the gene for a particular activity is off or on. But again....it's written into the genome what happens....

No one is stating that environment has no play. You jog more, you lose weight...sit on your ass, you gain. But you are still constrained by your DNA. Variability in one's reaction to environmental stimuli doesn't mean genes play a smaller part.
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No one is stating that environment has no play. You jog more, you lose weight...sit on your ass, you gain. But you are still constrained by your DNA. Variability in one's reaction to environmental stimuli doesn't mean genes play a smaller part.

I think it's all just duality and separation.
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How do you explain people who start out a certain way and then become liberal or conservative, the opposite of what they were before? I know i started out more liberal, then you have people like Arianna Huffington who used to be conservative etc. etc.


Because you assime Huffington was being true to herself back in the 1990's when she appeared regularly on Politically Correct as a conservative.

She probably got more money to be a liberal later on. And she has been one since then. You have no idea whether she is still, at heart, a conservative. She may still be. And just because genes rule, doesn't mean that you must be conservative OR liberal for life.

Maybe, your genetics forces you to be liberal when young but then conservative when older. It's a trail....nothing about genes discounts this possibility.

And besides....genetics is JUST an influence, albeit strong, maybe influencing you 60-70%. If you happen to be a certain party...maybe leaning 60%, but all you ever get subjected to in life are the PA board, your overwhelming parents and friends who are liberal, and your dominant husband who is liberal....of course...you're probably going to be liberal. There's always a role for the environment to influence you.
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>>No one is stating that environment has no play. You jog more, you lose weight...sit on your ass, you gain. But you are still constrained by your DNA. Variability in one's reaction to environmental stimuli doesn't mean genes play a smaller part.<<

I think it's all just duality and separation. - wolverine


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Wolvie, you were predestined to post that.

And me this.
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Wolvie, you were predestined to post that.

And me this


You don't lie!!!!
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Maybe, your genetics forces you to be liberal when young but then conservative when older. It's a trail....nothing about genes discounts this possibility.
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Well then all your posts on this thread blow chunks. So you're saying CC's son is liberal now but maybe he'll be a conservative in 4 days because of genes. Helpful. Next thing you know you'll be suggesting everyone buy Cirrus Logic because it's got a cool logo.
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Well then all your posts on this thread blow chunks. So you're saying CC's son is liberal now but maybe he'll be a conservative in 4 days because of genes. Helpful. Next thing you know you'll be suggesting everyone buy Cirrus Logic because it's got a cool logo.



Let's say your 21 years old and a male. You see this hot 21 year old at a bar. She walks up to you and talks naughty to you.....what is your reaction?


Let's say, the next day, you are still this 21 year old male, with exactly the same DNA. You are standing at the DMV....and some weird 50 year MALE talks dirty to you....what is your reaction?

I would take it that it would be different. Why? Because they are two very different circumstances. Your same set of genes react to different circumstances differently.

And to put some time into this equation. AGain, at 21 you see this hot 21 year at a bar, you react a certain way.

OK fast forward 30 years, now, you're 51 years old, married with a 21 year old daughter who is celebrating her 21st at a party. Her hot 21 year old friend walks up to you....tries to hit on you.

Do you act the same?? No circumstances changed....you act differently.

There are a gadzillion variations of this scenario in which you, through time, act and think differently....whether it's personal growht (again, possibly a genetically determined course) or just plain circumstances...things change even if you have the SAME genes.
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2828 wrote: How do you explain people who start out a certain way and then become liberal or conservative, the opposite of what they were before? I know i started out more liberal, then you have people like Arianna Huffington who used to be conservative etc. etc.

Same here. I'm completely conservative now, having been librul in my youth.
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You mean her only recourse at this point is a taser?


Genetic wiring won't be affected by shocks to the electrical wiring.
-------------------------------------------------------------
How do you explain people who start out a certain way and then become liberal or conservative, the opposite of what they were before? I know i started out more liberal, then you have people like Arianna Huffington who used to be conservative etc. etc.


Believe it or not, I used to believe in Big Government. Before college, I just thought we needed strong leadership to solve our problems. That was a belief based on ignorance and wishful thinking of course.

Lucky for me, I am extremely skeptical by nature. I started studying economics and politics in college, and I have become progressively more libertarian since then as I have continued to learn about the destructive impact of government.
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Considering epigenetics, how can you be so sure?

I'm not sure what epegenetics brings new to the table. You are still constrained by your genes. Yes, your genes may switch off or on depending on what it's subjected to, depending on your environment. So in a sense, your genes "change", but it's still constrained by what happens if it's "ON" and what happens if its "OFF" depending on your actions. It may be a BIT different or VERY different whether the gene for a particular activity is off or on. But again....it's written into the genome what happens....

No one is stating that environment has no play. You jog more, you lose weight...sit on your ass, you gain. But you are still constrained by your DNA. Variability in one's reaction to environmental stimuli doesn't mean genes play a smaller part.


Your point was that the parents' contribution ends at conception. My point is that it is not true. The specific environmental influences created by the parents throughout childhood affect gene expression.

Not only that, there are numerous non-genetic changes that take place in your brain based on your behavior. Check out this website, which is specifically related to Internet porn addiction but talks a lot about brain function:

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

Then there is neuroplasticity.

There are all sorts of changes that place in our genes and in our brains, so I think it is a little too simplistic to agree with Art's fatalistic "the genes that you were born with determine everything" viewpoint.
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No one is stating that environment has no play. You jog more, you lose weight...sit on your ass, you gain. But you are still constrained by your DNA. Variability in one's reaction to environmental stimuli doesn't mean genes play a smaller part.

I think it's all just duality and separation.


Taser!
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There are all sorts of changes that place in our genes and in our brains, so I think it is a little too simplistic to agree with Art's fatalistic "the genes that you were born with determine everything" viewpoint.
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I'm way too late to this party, but I'd like to know why I am the *only* one in my family (brothers, parents, grandparents) who has ever strayed from the liberal plantation. Heck, half of them were/are socialists. What do you suppose happened to my brain?

Actually, I think economics was a lot of it, though I've always been more conservative than my family. Economics teaches you to think logically and to think through the whole problem - way past the point where most people stop. Economics gets you to "whose paying for this?" A question most people would like to avoid.

arrete
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I'm way too late to this party, but I'd like to know why I am the *only* one in my family (brothers, parents, grandparents) who has ever strayed from the liberal plantation. Heck, half of them were/are socialists. What do you suppose happened to my brain?
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Whoa! You're like one of them albino fruit flies!
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I'm way too late to this party, but I'd like to know why I am the *only* one in my family (brothers, parents, grandparents) who has ever strayed from the liberal plantation. Heck, half of them were/are socialists. What do you suppose happened to my brain?
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Not to change the subject but it's somewhat related. I just read someone on Facebook who is for Obamacare and for subsidies to the solar industry (he's in the solar industry) say he's a "staunch constitutionalist".
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I just read someone on Facebook who is for Obamacare and for subsidies to the solar industry (he's in the solar industry) say he's a "staunch constitutionalist".
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He's also schizo?

arrete - or delusional
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Your point was that the parents' contribution ends at conception. My point is that it is not true. The specific environmental influences created by the parents throughout childhood affect gene expression.



Oh fer crying out loud Madcap, you know that is not what I said. You read that parents have NO influence whatsoever? Really? Here's my direct quote.

My point is that genes play a much larger role than people ever realized....I know it's a tough thing for people to concede, because they LIKE to think they are in control of their lives. You are....but only to a partial extent.

Read the below MC....tell me how what I wrote means that parent's influence ends at conception. It doesn't.


****************

.....it's an aspect of personality, which is determine significantly by genes. Obviously there is no single gene or set of genes for politics. But what has been found is that basic facets of personalities are affected by genes one receives in the womb. Not much you can do about it. And these basic inherited personality traits will determine which politics seem more seemly to them. Remember, we're talking basic personality....not more superficial stuff.

Now, that doesn't mean that skills, higher level behaviors, and memories cannot be affected by parental teachings and supervision. Yes, you can affect skills and habits, but you as a parent, will NOT affect basic personality to a great degree

************************


Do you see the heavy qualifications there?? My emphasis is that genes play a large part in basic personality, but not on skills or habits? Environmental, whether parental influence or peer influence play a part. But genes dominate.
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aol
Because you assime Huffington was being true to herself back in the 1990's when she appeared regularly on Politically Correct as a conservative.

She probably got more money to be a liberal later on. And she has been one since then. You have no idea whether she is still, at heart, a conservative. She may still be. And just because genes rule, doesn't mean that you must be conservative OR liberal for life.

Maybe, your genetics forces you to be liberal when young but then conservative when older. It's a trail....nothing about genes discounts this possibility.

And besides....genetics is JUST an influence, albeit strong, maybe influencing you 60-70%. If you happen to be a certain party...maybe leaning 60%, but all you ever get subjected to in life are the PA board, your overwhelming parents and friends who are liberal, and your dominant husband who is liberal....of course...you're probably going to be liberal. There's always a role for the environment to influence you.


People who are weak willed or have no moral compass are easily influenced and changed.

decath
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Let's say your 21 years old and a male. You see this hot 21 year old at a bar. She walks up to you and talks naughty to you.....what is your reaction?

Let's say, the next day, you are still this 21 year old male, with exactly the same DNA. You are standing at the DMV....and some weird 50 year MALE talks dirty to you....what is your reaction?



When I was 21, my reaction to both would have been the same: Go away.
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Same here. I'm completely conservative now, having been librul in my youth. -CC


IMHO, you ought to find that reassuring. It's a very real possibility that, in the long run, your son will take the same path as you did.
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Same here. I'm completely conservative now, having been librul in my youth. -CC


IMHO, you ought to find that reassuring. It's a very real possibility that, in the long run, your son will take the same path as you did.--Andrew


Tends to be a pattern. Happens the other other way too. I learned last week that a network support guy in our office grew up in a conservative, Christian Catholic household. Now he is an extreme leftwinger and an athiest.

I'm pretty sure I've always been conservative oriented. But it really hit home when I was a Freshman and Sophomore. Being small and skinny, I was bullied by rednecks and minorities. Since I was semi abused by my dad, I had very low self-esteam and to a bully, it was like a target on my back.

After I mustered the courage to bust a bully in the mouth during football practice at the beginning of my Junior year, things turned around quickly for me. I became pretty aggressive against bullies. As I got into college, it eventually turned into a conservative mindset against liberal a$$holes that victimized criminals, allowing them back on the streets to hurt more people.

decath
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