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I ran across an interesting statistic while doing some research at work today. According to the 1997 Census data (their data is always old), a 1997 high school graduate earned on average $25,453, while a college graduate earned on average $41,949. That is a difference of $16,496 annually, much less than the majority of us are paying on our student loans each year. This puts things in a positive persective - what a payoff!

So I never frown or get angry when I mail off that $200 student loan check each month, because I figure I am still ahead $13,000 or so for the year.

Credit cards, however, that is an entirely different story. I'm kicking myself for those.

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<<I ran across an interesting statistic while doing some research at work today. According to the 1997 Census data (their data is always old), a 1997 high school graduate earned on average $25,453, while a college graduate earned on average $41,949.>>

Sorry, but I don't look at it as positive as you do.

First of all, your stats would hold more water if they were narrowed down to only college students to take out student loans. Wealthier students who make higher incomes might not utilize loans, while lower incomes are more likely too. That might lower your average income figure a bit.

Also, for example, I would imagine there are a lot more K-12 educators that are required to get masters degrees that make far below that average, than say doctors who would make far above.

When debt is concerned, I never like to try to be even better than the status quo, since I am responsible for my own finances.

Fred
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Also, for example, I would imagine there are a lot more K-12 educators that are required to get masters degrees

Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?

Ishtar
(confused)
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<<Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?>>

New York, for one place.

Greta
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<<Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?>>

New York, for one place.

Really? No wonder NY state has a good public school system; I know the city has problems, but I knew the state as pretty good. (I spent about half my growing years in NY and half in Florida. I used to think Fl system sucked, until my kid is here in Cali.)

I just hadn't heard of Master's required before. Most places I've been, you need a Master's to teach at the Community College or Vo Tech level, but only a BA to teach in K-12, if your major is education. If your major isn't education, you would need a master's in your field and a teaching certificate.

Ishtar

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<<Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?>>

Kentucky. Knowing that my state is rarely the trendsetter, I'm sure that there are others.

Fred
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Interesting. In Florida, they are so desperate for teachers you just need a college degree in something/anything not even in education.
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Kentucky. Knowing that my state is rarely the trendsetter, I'm sure that there are others.

This is so strange to me. You can't just get a BA in elementary education and teach elementary school? Really?

Ishtar

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Interesting. In Florida, they are so desperate for teachers you just need a college degree in something/anything not even in education.

California is getting that bad, too. Teacher Certificates are amazingly easy to get.

Ishtar
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Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?

Hi Ishtar!

Most states require teachers to have a Masters to be permanently certified. That's how it is here in NYS, and most states follow this.

Tony (who has 75 credits beyond his MA)
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Hi Ishtar!

Most states require teachers to have a Masters to be permanently certified. That's how it is here in NYS, and most states follow this.

Tony (who has 75 credits beyond his MA)
...but I still am...


This is totally fasinating to me. I know only two/three teachers that I had in high school that had Master's (the Humanities teacher and the Chem teacher,) Possibly the Physics teacher, too, he was BRILLIANT.

My mom's BA is in Secondary Education, English and she could have started teaching immediately after graduation. She decided to teach college instead, and went on, but if she'd been happy with middle/high school, she wouldn't have HAD to.

My best friend from high school got her BA in Secondary Education, English and Social Studies. She, too, decided not to teach after all, but she never said anything about NEEDING an MA.

A step-sister has been teaching for a year, 4th grade, I think, with just a BA.

"Most states?" really? I'm so freaked, I'm going to have to research!

Ishtar
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This is totally fasinating to me. I know only two/three teachers that I had in high school that had Master's (the Humanities teacher and the Chem teacher,) Possibly the Physics teacher, too, he was BRILLIANT.

Be careful associating BRILLIANCE with level of education. :)

There are many brilliant people who never went beyond high school, and any number of degreed morons. I'm not saying that's the general case, so please don't flame me if you spent 12 years in college collecting 7 different degrees...
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<<My best friend from high school got her BA in Secondary Education, English and Social Studies. She, too, decided not to teach after all, but she never said anything about NEEDING an MA.>>

It's strange in KY. You can be hired without a masters, BUT you have to get it within a certain amount of time. I have a friend who just knocked out his masters all at once and then got a job. My sis-in-law is a middle school teacher and she has so much post-grad work that she is tapped out on what she can make in the school system. No more education will help her money-wise.

I look at it as a paradox, you would think that if you went through school being taught by people with masters, then the last thing you would need is EXTRA schooling.

Fred

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This is so strange to me. You can't just get a BA in elementary education and teach elementary school? Really?

To start, yes, but usually, you need to get permanently certified within 5 years, and that usually requires a Masters in most states.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Be careful associating BRILLIANCE with level of education. :)

There are many brilliant people who never went beyond high school, and any number of degreed morons. I'm not saying that's the general case, so please don't flame me if you spent 12 years in college collecting 7 different degrees...


So true!

There are plenty of people who are extremely intelligent and have no degrees in their pocket. By the same token, there are lots of people who have high degrees but they'd never be considered the brightest crayons in the box. ;-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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<<Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?>>

New York, for one place.


In indiana they are not required to have a masters. They only get it if they want a significant pay increase, or they are trying to become a principal.

Principals are required to have a pay increase, and adminstrators a Ph.D.

The same goes for Illinois, if i remembered correctly.
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. According to the 1997 Census data (their data is always old), a 1997 high school graduate earned on average $25,453, while a college graduate earned on average $41,949

This is sort of apples and oranges, isn't it? How did a 1993 high school graduate that worked the years that the 1997 college graduate was in school compare?

FWIW I never graduated college (though I graduated high school by attending a local college instead of living out the nightmare of senior year at my high school) and make considerably more than the average for either the high school OR college graduate. Many people mistake me for a college grad, though.

Heh ... and I'm still mired in debt, so hopefully no hubris here.

t.
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<<Where are teachers REQUIRED to have Masters?>>

New York, for one place.


That must be something new. My sister-in-law only has her bachelor's degree, but she works for a NYC school. She's only been doing it for a year, so maybe it's a new law.

As a matter of fact, I read an article somewhere that featured a woman who doesn't even have a degree who just took some classes and is now teaching in one of the poor-performing schools. They are in such desperate need for teachers that they are taking people who have potential and having them follow a very strict curriculum so that they don't need the degree.


JLizNY :)
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There are many brilliant people who never went beyond high school, and any number of degreed morons. I'm not saying that's the general case, so please don't flame me if you spent 12 years in college collecting 7 different degrees...

Actually, I haven't even finished an Associates yet, and I think I'm pretty smart (when I'm not being too crazy!) I keep hoping to finally pick a career I can concentrate on, but there are so many things to learn!

You know how people have conversations about, "what would you do if you won the lottery?" My answer is "go to school for the rest of my life!"

I wouldn't worry about degrees or anything, just take whatever classes I need as pre-reqs to learn what I want to learn: History, sociology, anthropology, psychology, quantum physics, topography, chaos theory, a little law, some in-depth literature, a lot of philosophy, comparative religions . . . .

To be able to study, and not have to worry about how I'm paying the rent. . . . that would be HEAVEN!

Ishtar
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I keep hoping to finally pick a career I can concentrate on, but there are so many things to learn!

You know how people have conversations about, "what would you do if you won the lottery?" My answer is "go to school for the rest of my life!"



ROFLOL!!!!

I've studied computers (was going to be a programmer)
Then it was Marine Biology....
Then it was Travel Agent...
Then a Church Secretary while working on my...
BA in Communications....that turned into
a BA in Human Relations...which lead to a job...
as a Mental Health Associate working with teenage girls....then, after the burnout....
Reservations for United Airlines....then after having enough of irates...
Administrative Assistant....now a Publications Assistant....
currently looking to move into Graphic Design...I think....taking some classes....we'll see....

One of these days I'll decide what I want to be when I grow up!!!
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WOW- You guys, that is me in a nut shell. I've had 8 different majors in 10 years, going to school part-time, no degree at all now, 4 different schools.
I too- would go to school forever if I won the lottery. One of my instructors once told me that I should be a teacher and I could go to school for the rest of my life. heheh

Margi
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I've studied computers (was going to be a programmer)
Then it was Marine Biology....
Then it was Travel Agent...
Then a Church Secretary while working on my...
BA in Communications....that turned into
a BA in Human Relations...which lead to a job...
as a Mental Health Associate working with teenage girls....then, after the burnout....
Reservations for United Airlines....then after having enough of irates...
Administrative Assistant....now a Publications Assistant....
currently looking to move into Graphic Design...I think....taking some classes....we'll see....

One of these days I'll decide what I want to be when I grow up!!!


LOL!

I was in the Navy, became an electronics tech with computer and communications background. While I was in, took classes toward some kind of liberal arts degree; really wanted to do psychology at that time, but also thought about English or communications.

Worked more as a technician, started to get some PC experience. Thought about/started to get some credits toward doing networking. Got out of the Navy, started working as a PC/Networking tech. Didn't like it, changed major focus to Engineering (Electrical/electronic) - lots of people drop out of Engineering to do "easier" liberal arts degrees, not many do it the other way around! Went back to working in general electronics - not as much money.

Now, I've got more credits than I need for an Associates, but no degree focus. I'm currently thinking about Business (and for anyone who knows me, this is an absolute TRIP) or Accounting (can you see me as a CPA??) Of course, I could get a communications degree and go into tech writing, with my technical background. *sigh*

One of these days I need to decide what to do with my life!

Ishtar
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Hi, folks,

For any of you who hasn't enough credits to qualify for a degree at one single college, there are "external" degree programs. I had the same problem, and I obtained my B.A. this way, thus qualifying for graduate school.

Unfortunately, this method does have its downside.

1. The fees are OUTRAGEOUS, and they don't qualify for any financial aid. Anyone of intelligent enough to get a B.A./B.S. can figure out whether or not (s)he qualifies.

2. They "sandbag" your qualifications. [According to the "evaluator", I was "just short" of what I needed, and (of course!) needed to pay for additional "enrollment". After I "explained" the (publicly available) rules to the evaluator, it was conceded that I did indeed qualify for my B.A.. [If you believe that this was "just a misunderstanding", I've got .... (smile)]

3. They "inflate" their fees. For example, my "billing" included a "suggested contribution" to their alumni fund, which was included in the "amount due" column.

Despite these drawbacks, one may benefit from obtaining an Associate's or a Bachelor's Degree by this method.

Prettygenius
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By the time I got my BA in Human Relations, I had so many credits that the registrar would ask me each semester..."so, WHEN are you going to graduate?!".....
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Actually, I haven't even finished an Associates yet, and I think I'm pretty smart ...

Ishtar,

You really crack me up.

I am going to graduate with my Associates next spring, after almost 20 years of college. (OK, so I dropped in and out and didn't actually attend for 20 years, but I sure have taken a ton of classes.) Then I have to make a real decision wether I want to get a real degree or just keep cruising along. I'm certainly not getting any younger. The good thing is that I don't have any student loans. When you take 20 years, you can afford to pay as you go.

There are many brilliant people who never went beyond high school, and any number of degreed morons.

I would have to agree with this in specific cases, but not in general. The reason employers want to hire degreed individuals is because they usually have a basic level of competence and a demonstrated ability to reach a difficult goal. Of course, some folks are a disappointment no matter what kind of credentials they bring. We have some interns here from UCI and they are flat amazing. I wish I had a fraction of those skills at 21 years old.

Bret
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It's strange in KY. You can be hired without a masters, BUT you have to get it within a certain amount of time. I have a friend who just knocked out his masters all at once and then got a job.

Here in Sunny CA the teachers make more money if they have a Masters instead of a BA. So, a bunch of the teachers now get these "Masters through the Mail" just to make more money. And then people wonder why CA spends a fortune on education and our system is such a disaster.

It's all pretty pathetic.

Bret
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I would imagine there are a lot more K-12 educators that are required to get masters degrees that make far below that average,

I think you are absolutely correct. Please don't misunderstand, I love my job and that is worth a lot. However, I just took my husbands paycheck to the bank. His one week check is more than my check will be on Monday. (I am paid twice a month). I will also be paying on my student loans for a while yet.

We sometimes joke in our teachers lounge that the amount of education our husbands have is in proportion to the amount of money they make. There are a couple of exceptions but basically the ones with the least education are making the most money!
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I'll bet you had to really twist their arms to get them to take the money. (smile)

Prettygenius
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