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I just happened to wander back over here from the LBYM board and came upon the suicide post. It immediately put me into tears even though I saw the later retraction. My guess is that there are others out there who have had or are having these thoughts. They may be too embarassed to post it here but I'll bet there are those who have contemplated suicide because of their financial situation.

It is possible some of you think it is ridiculous to contemplate suicide because "it is only money." But it can be so much more than that. There are all kinds of emotions wrapped up in big debt. There is a big difference between those who are just trying to get ahead by paying down your debt and those, like me, who have gotten sued and called names and tormented and still haven't found a way to pay the minimums. It feels hopeless. HOPE LESS. Not too long ago I had contemplated suicide. I could NOT see a way out. There are so many emotions tied up in serious debt. A good person feels they are now "bad." You can feel like a creep. You can feel like you have sunk lower that you ever thought you could sink. You can feel "why bother?"

I was in a very bad place not too long ago. I hated myself. I wanted to be treated differently by the creditors because illness had caused my problems. I didn't do it on purpose. I hadn't been irresponsible. I had no frivolous lifestyle to show for my debt. No cool clothes, no stereo system, nothing. I resented the crap out of it. I was very tired. It was more stressful to have these creeps calling and sending sherrifs in the middle of the night to sue me than it was being told I might croak.

But then I made a decision to be grateful. It was a very difficult decision and it did not come naturally. I had to force it. I have to force it every day. It is a decision to be grateful, not a feeling that just comes over me.

When I wake up with that creepy feeling, I just start talking to myself. Yes, I am in crushing debt. But I have two working hands and a great mind and I can get up and go to work to pay it off. I am thankful for that. A credit card guy was really disrepectful to me: Oh well, that's his job. On the flip side, my husband has been nothing but a rock through all this. How could I not be grateful for that? I won't get to travel for years: Life is made up of "little moments" anyway. There are alot of little moments in a day to "get away" that you can be grateful for. When I get into complete overwhelm, I just remind myself that this is not forever. I am grateful I have "freedom" to look forward to.

I look for things to be grateful for through the day. I have a home. The weather is beautiful today. My husband cooked me dinner. Could my dog act any cuter? The guy let me ahead of him in traffic. It is hard to feel hopeless when you are feeling grateful no matter how small the thing is that you are feeling grateful for.

How's this for hope? Six months ago I couldn't make my minimums. I had been sued twice. Could barely buy groceries. Very bleak. But we used our creativity (which I am grateful to have) and found a way to increase our means. My debt was $55,000 back than. It is now $40,000. We are due to be paid off by June of 2003. Not counting if one of us gets a raise or something. Here's something to look forward to: What will we possibly do with the "extra" $1,818 every month when this is all paid off?

There is always hope. ALWAYS.




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What inspiration.

I'm glad your back on your feet and fighting.

Keep up the good work.

Fool on

Fredinseoul
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It would be nice manner and to the point if you had pasted the link to the message that you are referring to.

I have no idea as what you are talking about on some other message board.

There are different reasons for contemplating suicide and no one is better than other.

Have you ever suffered from depression?
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Here ya go aditya


http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=14891205

I recommend reading the whole thread.

Kris
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Sounds like you are doing great, wanthelp! {{{{{{{{{{{wanthelp}}}}}}}}}}}}

Keep posting; keep us up to date!

Ishtar
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My brother is in the service. A young man stationed at his location comitted suicide because he was behind on his car payments. He had over extended himself and was going to loose a new Mustang he had been foolish enough to buy with his tiny base salary.

My brother was the one charged taking care of all his affairs, and personally escorting the body back to his home town and family for the funeral.

We had a long talk about this one night. My brother is certain that the man had much deeper problems, and that the delinquent car payments just pushed him over the edge. When my brother added up all the debts and assets, he wasn't that bad off. There were no warnings that the guy was that screwed up. Whatever the problem, it was not apparent to anyone else. He was young, healthy, and was doing a good job.

Strange and sad..... His family was devastated. When my brother delivered the body to the family and made the funeral arrangements, the family latched on to him for comfort and answers. It was my brother's most difficult task he was every asked to do in all his years of service.

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A little more on my brother's ordeal with the suicide guy.

After the suicide, my brother drove the guy's Mustang back to the dealer that held the paper, handed them the keys, and told them to take the car back. The dealership was so cold blooded. They actually attempted to get my bother to assume responsibility for the loan and to take the car home himself. When that failed, they wanted him to talk the family into taking over payments. He told them where they can park the car where it hurts the most and walked out.



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I just can't imagine any person/company that is so cold hearted.

Your brother sounds like his heart is in the right place. Some people would take advantage of a situation like that. Kuddos to him.

Catleen
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I just can't imagine any person/company that is so cold hearted.

I can. PacBell refused to release my father from his cell phone contract after he died. Death is not an excuse to stop the cell service in their minds.

Your brother sounds like his heart is in the right place. Some people would take advantage of a situation like that. Kuddos to him.

How can someone take advantage of it? It was tragic all around.
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Last winter, 20/20 {I think } ran a show about some young college kids committing sucide over a few thousand dollars in cc bills. The mother of one of the students said a cc company called her after the funeral to try and get the family to assume responsibility for the bill.
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Wnathelp200, I am glad your situation is getting better!
It's very sad when a person gets into this hopeless situation and I know how trapped you can feel when there's nothing you can do to improve things...

I wonder if there are any charitable funds or organizations that actually try to help people with these kinds of monetary problems. A simple $50 can do miracles, and, if someone is not willing to accept just a donation they could provide something like 0% loan without exact pay-back date. I bet that could save a few people. Heck, even one person is worth it!..
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"After the suicide, my brother drove the guy's Mustang back to the dealer that held the paper, handed them the keys, and told them to take the car back. The dealership was so cold blooded. They actually attempted to get my bother to assume responsibility for the loan and to take the car home himself. When that failed, they wanted him to talk the family into taking over payments. He told them where they can park the car where it hurts the most and walked out."

That is unreal. I understand that businesses are trying to make a profit and that they lose money when a loan goes bad (for whatever reason), but good grief...trying to scam your brother, a serviceman who was only being nice, into taking over payments? Were they kidding? I hope he told everyone in town not to patronize that place...the appropriate response would've been to express their sympathy and thank him for his thoughtfulness in bringing the car back, which he did not have to do.
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That is unreal. I understand that businesses are trying to make a profit and that they lose money when a loan goes bad (for whatever reason), but good grief...trying to scam your brother, a serviceman who was only being nice, into taking over payments? Were they kidding? I hope he told everyone in town not to patronize that place...the appropriate response would've been to express their sympathy and thank him for his thoughtfulness in bringing the car back, which he did not have to do.

Good point...

If they had done that to me, I would taken the keys back and parked the car off the end of a pier and mailed them the keys back telling them that the car is parked in 50 feet of water in Pugent Sound.

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Wanthelp,

I'm glad to hear that you are doing so much better, both physically and financially.

Suicide is a very scary solution for some people in debt. Two months ago, the former mayor of our city went out into his back yard and shot himself. He left behind his wife, some grown kids and a three year old. The story was that he was working as a consultant for a property development and the deal just didn't go through. I'm sure being such a high-profile citizen didn't help when the financial stress came.

Thank God for people like those on this board.

It's really nice to have someone to lean on when it all gets rough.

Bret
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Suicide is a very scary solution for some people in debt


It's really nice to have someone to lean on when it all gets rough.

Debt is not the only reason for despair that leads some people to suicide but it hurts only those who are left alive. To the person who succeeds in suicide it is the end of his misery. For that reason may people in dire situation reesort to killing their family before they kill themselves.

It is only Christianity which imposes such a heavy value on life. In many cultures an early death may lead to martyrdom and is nothing to be afraid of.
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It is only Christianity which imposes such a heavy value on life.

I think this is an unfair characterization of other religions and or culturs. Many value life, even life of non-human creatures.

In many cultures an early death may lead to martyrdom and is nothing to be afraid of.

Jesus, Joan of Arc ... there are many revered Christian martyrs, and it seems to me that a good portion of Christianity is making death seem less frightening and life more bearable by promising rewards in the afterlife.

Thanks,
t.
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I am very thrilled to read your answer & it is very inspiring to see where you have come from where you've been. Thank you for posting.
I'm trying to read this while opening checks from other people (at work!) for a public radio station (work!) and there is a strange feeling watching this money pass through my hands that isn't mine. (its even more fun to run the credit card machine & suck out the money directly but I only do that during pledge drive).

Now back to opening mail.

jts
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Christianity is making death seem less frightening and life more bearable by promising rewards in the afterlife.

I had no intention of getting into religious debate on this forum but the so called right to life and anti-living will movements are primarily Christian phenomenon and that too in US and they are not based on the rewards in the afterlife but only in the fear of hell in the afterlife.

The people who for whatever reason have come to the conclusion that the life on earth for them has become worse than the hell in the afterlife should have right to decide for themselves if they do not hurt any one else.
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if they do not hurt any one else


But, in almost every circumstance, they DO hurt someone else. They devastate the lives of their families and friends who loved them deeply, and would give anything to have them back so that they could help them with whatever they thought was so wrong that they would leave the world in such an UNTIMELY fashion.
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<not based on the rewards in the afterlife but only in the fear of hell in the afterlife.>
Huh? You don't know too much about Christianity if that's what you think it's all about. I suggest you read a Bible before making comments such as this. You may just learn something about Life.

All life is precious, no matter what that life believes in. No one has a right to take a life, any life, including one's own life. Death gets its share without us helping it along.
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All life is precious, no matter what that life believes in. No one has a right to take a life, any life, including one's own life. Death gets its share without us helping it along.

Having lived in US, I do not have to read Bible to be brainwashed.

Life is too abundant in nature to be of any value to any one else other than to whom it belongs and that is a subjective belief. It may sound cruel but the life survives only by taking the life of others and thus setting a balance of various species.
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<<Having lived in US, I do not have to read Bible to be brainwashed.>>

Luvitorleaveit Brother!

You must believe that if another person has something you want, like food, then you can just kill him and take it. That's just the balance of nature. You're a freak.
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The people who for whatever reason have come to the conclusion that the life on earth for them has become worse than the hell in the afterlife should have right to decide for themselves if they do not hurt any one else.

I cannot but agree with you on that point. It seems I misread your intent from your first post, please accept my apologies.

Regards,
t.
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You must believe that if another person has something you want, like food, then you can just kill him and take it. That's just the balance of nature. You're a freak.

It is not a matter of belief but a fact of life. How else do you think your hamberger comes to you? You have just paid some one else to kill that cattle or chicken for you.
Only religious fanatics have irrational beliefs.

If you don't understand this simple statement then you ,b> the freak.

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I look for things to be grateful for through the day. I have a home. The weather is beautiful today. My husband cooked me dinner. Could my dog act any cuter? The guy let me ahead of him in traffic. It is hard to feel hopeless when you are feeling grateful no matter how small the thing is that you are feeling grateful for.

Greetings, what a wonderful post. I excerpted the part above to say that for me this is EXACTLY what changing my attitude towards my own financially reduced circumstances has involved.

I was not depressed nor contemplating suicide about now owing well over $100K from medical school costs - but many I know HAVE been overwhelmed by the enormity of what they owe and need to pay back. And a sense of hopelessness is on the same continuum as is worry and stress over the debt vulture - so I do appreciate that there is a powerful sway to the negative when worry takes over that makes it much easier to slide into despair.

What I have discovered has been superbly stated by you. Life is NOT about feeling deprived "until" you have freedom - it is about the freedom to enjoy what you DO have. I used to travel frequently, spend money on what I pleased (including making contributions), had savings, had security. Then when I decided to go back to school and had to become a debtor to do it, I suddenly found myself very pinched. Initially I reacted somewhat poorly (old habits die hard!) but fairly rapidly discovered that I could CHOOSE to feel constantly deprived and down - or I could reshape my perspectives to appreciate what I DID have. And that's what I evidently did - for me it was fairly unconscious: I just somehow stopped wanting what I couldn't afford. So I won't go overseas again for a few years yet. So I won't be buying a new car (my 8 year old Toyota is doing just great, knock wood). So I won't be taking weekend trips. So I won't be spending money on STUFF.

But more to the point: I began to relish exactly the things you describe. There is plenty of found joy in the daily niceties that occur and these are the things that happen ALL THE TIME - truly, there is only one weekend a week. Why wait for then for all your joy when it is so easy to be put in a good mood by a kind word or a warm corner to curl up in? Plus it's contagious - I am more often spreading more of that kindness since I have turned that corner to appreciating what I do have instead of lamenting what I don't. Funny, traveling overseas is still a desire but it no longer feels like a void. Somehow I have everything I need in the here and now and I never truly knew how healthy a state of mind that attitude has proven to be.

Thanks for such a heartfelt post - you sure brightened my day!

xraymd

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It is only Christianity which imposes such a heavy value on life. In many cultures an early death may lead to martyrdom and is nothing to be afraid of.

Greetings, aditya, this is interesting - I am honestly curious to know if this perspective has an impact on suicide rates among the Eastern Hindu population. Is it relatively higher than it is among the Western Christian population - or even among the Hindu population that resides in this culture? Do you happen to know?

xraymd
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What I have discovered has been superbly stated by you. Life is NOT about feeling deprived "until" you have freedom - it is about the freedom to enjoy what you DO have. I used to travel frequently, spend money on what I pleased (including making contributions), had savings, had security. Then when I decided to go back to school and had to become a debtor to do it, I suddenly found myself very pinched. Initially I reacted somewhat poorly (old habits die hard!) but fairly rapidly discovered that I could CHOOSE to feel constantly deprived and down - or I could reshape my perspectives to appreciate what I DID have. And that's what I evidently did - for me it was fairly unconscious: I just somehow stopped wanting what I couldn't afford. So I won't go overseas again for a few years yet. So I won't be buying a new car (my 8 year old Toyota is doing just great, knock wood). So I won't be taking weekend trips. So I won't be spending money on STUFF.

Thank you Xray. Those were the exact words I needed to hear today.

I've been a little (alot) depressed lately because of the debt monster knocking on my door reminding me that it's there at all times.

But, instead of being happy that I finally own a house and a car that doesn't require $1000 in repairs every month and having $400 in NSF funds every month and receiving shut off notices for every utility every month and paying just enough to prevent it, and no CCC would touch me unless it was a secured card since my FICO was 425, etc. (This list goes on and on)

The above was 2 years ago.

Now I own a house. (MY house, my very own house!)
I have a 98 Saturn that should last me for quite some time.
NSF is a thing of the past.
I have 3 unsecured credit cards (and the debt to go along with them)

These are the blessings.

I have to STOP thinking I can pay all of these off tomorrow. It took me years to accumulate and it will take years to lower them! Keep saying that. Just keep saying that.

My husband and I received BT offers (0% until March 2002 with BT fees waived) from AT&T and Citibank. I really wanted to fill them out and get rid of the Providian at 23.99%. BUT, I know for a fact that now is not the time to fill them out. Our FICO scores are 636 and 617 right now. They would have turned us down and that would've added one more inquiry. The mortgage doesn't even show up on our CR's yet.

I'm rambling, I know.

Thanks for letting me vent. So, uh, I guess I'll get back to work now.

Kim
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Thats right there is always hope.

Never Never Never Give Up!!

Slovell
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Is it relatively higher than it is among the Western Christian population - or even among the Hindu population that resides in this culture? Do you happen to know?

I don't know and don't care. They do not take that much of evening news since there are no right to lifers as even Mother Tersa has died. They used to have Sati, a form of forced suicide that has long been banned.

I just think that if a person wants to commit voluntary suicide due to circumstances beyond his control, he should be left alone or even a doctor should be permitted to help him with his pain.

I am not in favor or forced suicides but assisted suicides in the name of sympathy. They let you shoot horses, don't they? Why should human have to suffer what a horse is not required
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In the 1970s book Suicide by Alvarez, a sort of study of suicide through the ages, I recall that he discussed how in the 1800s folks in Paris would commit suicide by drowning. The police record stated that they could always tell who killed themselves for "love" and who killed themselves because of debt. They said that the folks who killed themselves for "love" had marks on their hands from trying to scrabble up out of the water and save themselves at the last minute. The debtors wanted to die.

Debt is one of the greatest causes of suicide, if not the greatest cause other than serious illness. I once read an article on addictions which stated that gamblers had 160 times the rate of suicide of other addicts, such as drug addicts and alcoholics (who are not exactly low risk folks). The "160" times may be an exaggeration ... but it may not be. I do honestly believe that a lot of folks will die because of the new bankruptcy law which makes it more difficult to clean up your mess. The worst is when you get debt and disease combined...which is so common. I had a friend who went into remission from cancer but still lost everything financially ( health insurance does not cover your lost income! ) and he had to be put on Prozac to stop him from taking his own life.
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Damn shame I can only recce once....

Rogue
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Christianity is making death seem less frightening and life more bearable by promising rewards in the afterlife.

I had no intention of getting into religious debate on this forum but the so called right to life and anti-living will movements are primarily Christian phenomenon and that too in US and they are not based on the rewards in the afterlife but only in the fear of hell in the afterlife.

The people who for whatever reason have come to the conclusion that the life on earth for them has become worse than the hell in the afterlife should have right to decide for themselves if they do not hurt any one else.


If you don't want to get into a religious debate, don't make a posting about religious topics. In particular, don't make declarations about the motivations behind religious groups.

Suicide has implications for both sides...both the person killing themselves, and those left behind. There's no one "right" answer as to whether anyone "should" be allowed to take their own life -- different people involved will have different feelings on the subject.

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