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Aside from all the 'hot' issues that everyone is excited about these days....

I sometimes wonder about how many Americans are going to hit retirement age totally broke.

Think about how many people are now unemployed long-term with this skills going obsolete. They'll just never catch up.

Then there's those who work, but sadly live check-to-check and literally can't pay for groceries or a light bill "until I get paid".

Less and less are married.

So when they hit age 70 they'll have nothing. Not even a small condo paid off. So what happens?

They'll get $1500 a month in Social Security let's say. Tax that, they're left with $1250?

Rent, lights, phone, water, food?

I just forsee a generation that is totally and utterly screwed, and a visible poverty the likes that America hasn't seen before.
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I just forsee a generation that is totally and utterly screwed, and a visible poverty the likes that America hasn't seen before.
---------------------------------------------------
....and who would these folks vote for?

A) Personal Responsibility

B) Cloward B. Piven

.....and the winner is?
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Granted.

But beyond the politics of it....

What's gonna happen when they all retire?

Heck, my equation doesn't even take credit card debt into account.

JediG
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Granted.

But beyond the politics of it....

What's gonna happen when they all retire?
-------------------------------------
I really don't know, all i know is we aren't even having a serious conversation about it because democrats are just demonizing anything suggested just to get elected (see my Grayson post). Even simple things like raising the age for benefits get absolutely killed, because a 65 retirement age is better than 67, and they can play it to their advantage. It's funny, because when all this stuff was discussed before during the Bush years they talked about raising ages being easy and everything is cool, SS is fine, Medicare is fine, leaky pipe. Now you talk about raising elibibility, even for people barely just in the work force, they use it to hammer republicans. i'm convinced nothing will be done because we're dealing with toddlers....and the liberal media providing cover.
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Wanna know what i think?

I think the coming poverty, combined with the Liberal culture of hating life, and along with the Liberal belief that all humanity is so bad for the earth will lead to mass euthanasia against Americans. Voluntary is fine. But I'm talking about coaxed, or mandatory.

Ya know how abortion was the hot debate these days?

I really think the day is coming where euthanasia, even forced euthanasia for Americans is going to be a political issue.

Sheesh, the reward they'l get for not drinking soda and living long is a pain-pill and a firing squad.

JediG
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What's gonna happen when they all retire?

Retirement is an American post-WWII concept. In FDRs days very few made it to the Promised Land of 65 to collect anything. Folks will either move in with their kids, double/triple up, work 'til they drop, or starve. Liberals have worked overtime to kill the Golden Economic Goose of Free Enterprise that made the dream of retirement possible in the first place.
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What I think will eventually happen (after they've exhausted every other bad policy twice over) is that America will actually try economic policies that work. There's no way out of this mess other than to cut spending and increase growth. When will that happen? I figure about 2020.
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What I think will eventually happen (after they've exhausted every other bad policy twice over) is that America will actually try economic policies that work. There's no way out of this mess other than to cut spending and increase growth. When will that happen? I figure about 2020.
--------------------------------------------------
I'm trying to figure this out too, because if you get enough people voting for the bad policy twice over, and have given up looking for work (because it's less or about the same lucrativeness as not working), and have kids not up even thinking about looking for work, because that's what they were brought up in, then what you have is social unrest when there's no more blood to be taken from the turnip then there's big problems. I think the next president after this disaster is kinda crucial, if it already isn't too late already. More class warfare will kill this country good and dead.
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then what you have is social unrest when there's no more blood to be taken from the turnip then there's big problems.

You can join me in the Upper Peninsula. Seriously, I wouldn't want to be in Libertyville.
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then what you have is social unrest when there's no more blood to be taken from the turnip then there's big problems.

You can join me in the Upper Peninsula. Seriously, I wouldn't want to be in Libertyville.
------------------------------------------------------
I'm in <g>. Yepper!
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I'm trying to figure this out too, because if you get enough people voting for the bad policy twice over, and have given up looking for work (because it's less or about the same lucrativeness as not working), and have kids not up even thinking about looking for work, because that's what they were brought up in, then what you have is social unrest when there's no more blood to be taken from the turnip then there's big problems. I think the next president after this disaster is kinda crucial, if it already isn't too late already. More class warfare will kill this country good and dead.

Yup. I couldn't agree more.

There must be some way to reform welfare so that it is extremely difficult to commit fraud.

In the 16 years since President Clinton and Congress overhauled the nation's welfare system, the number of people receiving cash assistance has fallen by two-thirds. And public spending on the program has dropped by more than half.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/welfare-reform/...

The days of welfare families have been over for some time. If you want to be cheered up, you should read the entire article.

k
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“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

- Winston Churchill
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"Aside from all the 'hot' issues that everyone is excited about these days....I sometimes wonder about how many Americans are going to hit retirement age totally broke. Think about how many people are now unemployed long-term with this skills going obsolete. They'll just never catch up.Then there's those who work, but sadly live check-to-check and literally can't pay for groceries or a light bill "until I get paid".Less and less are married.So when they hit age 70 they'll have nothing. Not even a small condo paid off. So what happens?They'll get $1500 a month in Social Security let's say. Tax that, they're left with $1250?Rent, lights, phone, water, food?I just forsee a generation that is totally and utterly screwed, and a visible poverty the likes that America hasn't seen before." - jedi
--------------------


She'll end up moving in with her older brother or sister who did save for retirement.

Art
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There must be some way to reform welfare so that it is extremely difficult to commit fraud.

When it comes to food stamp fraud, one way is to bar code food so only food that's allowed to be purchased using food stamps can be purchased with food stamps. As it is, an EBT card can be used for just about anything. Also...

EBT card scam costing taxpayers $750M yearly
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/national_worl...

FRESNO, California (KFSN) -- The government is trying to crackdown on food stamp recipients who are costing taxpayers $750 million dollars a year by illegally selling their benefit cards on eBay and Craigslist for cash. The agriculture department wants to give states more power to investigate people who repeatedly claim to lose their benefit cards and then ask for replacements. The proposal would allow states to demand formal explanations from people who seek replacement cards more than three times a year. Those who don't comply can be denied further cards.
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"Folks will either move in with their kids, double/triple up, work 'til they drop, or starve. Liberals have worked overtime to kill the Golden Economic Goose of Free Enterprise that made the dream of retirement possible in the first place." - wolverine


My baby sister, age 54, worked as little as possible and spent every nickel she could lay her hands on. The idea of saving and investing is so foreign to her that it's like from another planet. I don't think she understands it at all. She has always counted on someone else to take care of her. I imagine that the day will come when she'll probably end up living with us. I won't let her end up living on the streets.

Right now she is living with her ex-husband and 30 year old Asperger's son in Athens, Georgia. This is the sister that lived in Sweden with some guy she met on the internet. The Swedish government cut his disability pension in half because my baby sister was living with him so she had to leave because she couldn't find a decent job in Sweden. She did substitute teach there and also did a tiny bit of restaurant work.

Right now she is working three jobs in Athens, GA. She is substitute teaching, and working for Nabisco about 25 hours a week setting up displays, and working nights at the convention center setting up for concerts and plays and meetings.

I don't know what is going to happen to her. She wants to get her own place and take care of her son with Asperger's but I'm not so sure that he wants to live with her. I think he likes his free and easy life with his father. Her oldest son is a total mess. Her youngest son is an assistant manager of an Italian restaurant in downtown Athens, Ga.

Art
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"You can join me in the Upper Peninsula. Seriously, I wouldn't want to be in Libertyville." - wolverine


The Upper Peninsula is beautiful. Gorgeous. Seriously. Never been there in winter but during August it was amazingly beautiful.

Art
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The Swedish government cut his disability pension in half because my baby sister was living with him

Maybe America will consider this for people on welfare.



My baby sister, age 54, worked as little as possible and spent every nickel she could lay her hands on. The idea of saving and investing is so foreign to her that it's like from another planet. I don't think she understands it at all. She has always counted on someone else to take care of her. I imagine that the day will come when she'll probably end up living with us.

People who think you can't have your cake and eat it too are so wrong. They just need to see more cases like your sister.
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This is the sister that lived in Sweden with some guy she met on the internet. The Swedish government cut his disability pension in half because my baby sister was living with him so she had to leave because she couldn't find a decent job in Sweden.

Couldn't she teach English in Sweden? Athens is a major college town. Isn't there some kinda market for her Swedish skills there? Somewhere in America there must be a way to turn her foreign language skills into cash.
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Art, I wonder if your sister, when she lived in Sweden, ever heard of Helen Sjöholm, who's quite famous in Sweden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk76_iqw-Pc
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Retirement is an American post-WWII concept. In FDRs days very few made it to the Promised Land of 65 to collect anything. Folks will either move in with their kids, double/triple up, work 'til they drop, or starve. Liberals have worked overtime to kill the Golden Economic Goose of Free Enterprise that made the dream of retirement possible in the first place.


It's worse than that. liberalism convinces people that just because they live here they're entitled to The Good Life. Meaning, if you win the Earth lottery and are born here -or- manage to run the gauntlet and make it here, you're entitled to food, shelter and health care.

They've killed the notion of competition in today's graduating college kids. That to me is the real shame and danger of unchecked liberalism: it produces people who are whiny losers. When life doesn't hand them champagne and roses instead of figuring out a way to adapt and overcome, they cry and stomp their feet until somebody caves and gives them a prize. They have no idea what it means to work toward a goal or to bust your a$$ for what you want...it's just expected that it will be there for you on a silver platter.

That destruction of America's sense of competitiveness will be our undoing more than anything else. It goes hand in hand with expecting that someone else will always take care of you. It's been europe's undoing and it'll bite us in the rear end quickly. Hopefully all those underemployed and underskilled Millenial/Gen Y Obama voters are getting a harsh enough life lesson that they change their mindset.
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“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

- Winston Churchill
_______________________________________

The exact reason Obama wants to turn Americans into 'global' citizens.
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“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

- Winston Churchill
***

Look at demographics, which many were surprised by in election 2012.

Look at demographic trends.

Look at the mentalities of those new demographic realities.

Look at the ideals and attitudes being taught to those new demographics via schools and culture.

What evidence is there that America will still be populated by americans?

And therefore, how do we know that the "New Americans" will insist on eventually doing the right thing?

I'm not confident.

JEdiG
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...
They've killed the notion of competition in today's graduating college kids.

...
____________________________

Lots of good thoughts in the post, but I wanted to just hone in on this one.

I know I did what I believe many conservatives have done. That is assume that liberals actually have good motives for their misguided policies.

I have since come to be convinced otherwise. The folks who pass down liberal thought from the hill, not the majority or folks we see here who just mindlessly quote them, are not people with good motives.

They want a compliant society that can be molded.

It does not matter what they believe they can mold it into, whether it be heaven or hell, it defines them as bad and evil folks that they want to neuter people to the point that they can exert control

No action is more emblematic than attack on competitiveness that is part of the liberal DNA, except perhaps the continuing attempt to turn men into women.
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Look at demographic trends.
_________________________________

Jedi

Communists from Russian
Fascists from Italy
Communists from Cuba

We have absorbed all kinds of folks and they have become part of America

At some point however, we became the great mosaic and not the great melting pot. At first it happened rhetorically in textbook etc, but then it was fostered by policy.

It is not the quality of the folks coming in. It is the place they are coming into IMO --- although the asinine nature of an immigration policy that is not nation first is of course insane unless you desire to harm the country.
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And therefore, how do we know that the "New Americans" will insist on eventually doing the right thing?

I cannot dispute that the short term is going to be scary and painful. There is no guarantee that brighter days will emerge on the other side either. However, if I don't retain some degree of optimism, I might as well off myself now and get it over with.
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Communists from Russian
Fascists from Italy
Communists from Cuba
***

I agree with all you said. So that's why i ask....why be optimistic that future 'Americans' will set the right course, when future 'Americans' are encouraged NOT to be Americans, but to emulate the very failure they left?

JediG
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I agree with all you said. So that's why i ask....why be optimistic that future 'Americans' will set the right course, when future 'Americans' are encouraged NOT to be Americans, but to emulate the very failure they left

Life will always present challenges.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.

- Thomas Paine
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I agree with all you said. So that's why i ask....why be optimistic that future 'Americans' will set the right course, when future 'Americans' are encouraged NOT to be Americans, but to emulate the very failure they left?
__________________________________________

Because they do not WANT to emulate the failure they left.

They will not drive to the failure they left, they just need obvious choices that there is another choice.

Our problem IMO remains that we have statist leftists and statist rightists -- we need conservative/libertarian option mixing mainstream moderation carried by conservatives with radical freedom(that isn't radical but needs to be presented as if it is from libertarians)

This can sell, it just needs a forum.

Why be optimistic? Because most of the immigrants want this solution they do not want what they left.

They need a bridge to get where they wanted and to an America they heard about from their parent as do most Americans.

It is not too late, but we have to defeat the mindset that one can work with liberalism, you can not work with those out to destroy you, and you need to get rid of those in your ranks that believe you can. At the same time, you need to create a bridge for the many Democrats who know the Dems are wrong, but have fear of the non-libertarian aspects lose in the Republican party.

It is not an easy road, however a path exists IMO. A majority still wants the old America but Obama and those like him are working very hard to kill hope and foster hatred.

Folks need to realize there is a very real enemy, and then perhaps they will win what they want.
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Because they do not WANT to emulate the failure they left.
***

What in the 2012 election results would bolster this claim?

JediG
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"People who think you can't have your cake and eat it too are so wrong. They just need to see more cases like your sister." - cellospice


She has a bachelor's degree in Art Education from the University of Georgia. She finished it back in the 1980's. She wanted to teach but there were just no job openings in Art Education where she lived near the University. Too much competition for jobs there. She was married with two little boys so she couldn't leave. Her husband was an old hippie who didn't want to leave Athens, GA because the living is easy there.

There are lots of old houses surrounding Athens that old hippies live in. Athens is full of old "green party" ultra liberal left wing/socialist long haired hippies. The women wear those long india cloth dresses and the men wear old faded blue jeans and tie dyed t-shirts. I'm sure Austin, Texas is the same way.

Art
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She wanted to teach but there were just no job openings in Art Education where she lived near the University.

Having a bachelor's degree does not prevent one from working at McDonald's or other menial labor.
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if you get enough people voting for the bad policy twice over, and have given up looking for work (because it's less or about the same lucrativeness as not working), and have kids not up even thinking about looking for work, because that's what they were brought up in, then what you have is social unrest when there's no more blood to be taken from the turnip then there's big problems. I think the next president after this disaster is kinda crucial, if it already isn't too late already. More class warfare will kill this country good and dead.
--------------------

I'm moving to Tennessee. If I didn't have family here, I probably would. Well, at least south-western VA.

arrete
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You can join me in the Upper Peninsula. Seriously, I wouldn't want to be in Libertyville.
------------------------------------------------------
I'm in <g>. Yepper!
===============

But you'd have to become a Lions fan!

arrete
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She'll end up moving in with her older brother or sister who did save for retirement.
---------------

That is what my step-brother is afraid of. He has 6 younger sibling, 2 who are set for a stable retirement. The other 4? - not so much. He's such a sap, it will probably happen. They always have someone living at their house who have been under "Hard times". A lot of times that just means they don't want to pay their own rent.

arrete
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My baby sister, age 54

You really are an old fART.
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"Couldn't she teach English in Sweden? Athens is a major college town. Isn't there some kinda market for her Swedish skills there? Somewhere in America there must be a way to turn her foreign language skills into cash." - wolverine


Not much call for Swedish. The only people who speak Swedish are people in Sweden, and there aren't all that many of them, and my baby sister told me that pretty much everybody in Sweden speaks English - only they don't like to - they prefer speaking Swedish.

It's not like Spanish where there are 10 Bazillion of them. Pretty much all of Latin America (except Brazil) speak Spanish. Learning Spanish is a smart thing to do. Hell you can use your Spanish if you live in South Florida or southern California. When we were in Orlando, Florida about a year ago we heard people speaking Spanish all over the place. There are parts of Orlando where that's all they speak.

Art
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"Art:
http://www.swedishscene.com/2012/01/new-website-for-the-swed......

http://www.indeed.com/q-Swedish-Speaking-jobs.html

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/list/q-swedish+speakers

http://us.jobrapido.com/?w=swedish+speaking&r=auto&u......

"I could go on, but it appears that lil sis has a valuable skill." wolverine

-----------


Thanks, I'll send her the links. See where it leads. She's sort of stuck in Athens, Georgia because one of the reasons she came back was to help take care of her son with aspergers. But maybe one of these leads will turn into something?

Thanks again, Art
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But you'd have to become a Lions fan!

That's the best part!!!!

Seriously, Ironwood, MI and Detroit are about 10 hours apart via car, plus you have a five mile bridge connecting the Upper and Lower Peninsulas. The "trolls" (we live under the bridge) and the Yoopers live in essentially two different states. The locals have a love affair with the Packers, rather than the Lions.
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"They'll get $1500 a month in Social Security let's say. Tax that, they're left with $1250?

Rent, lights, phone, water, food?

I just forsee a generation that is totally and utterly screwed, and a visible poverty the likes that America hasn't seen before. "

----

Heh......it looks like a lot of folks will retire to mobile homes.....or should I say manufactured housing? Also known as 'trailers' in some parts of the country.

Heck, you can buy yourself a 10-20 year old one, pay about $150 a month for a site, maybe pay $150 a month to pay off the loan on the old trailer.......and utilities are a hundred or so. Eat at home. Get a room mate....... get an ObamaPhone..... pay your Medicare premium and still have $300 or more a month after food and expenses.


Lots manage on that. Heck, a minimum wage worker lives on that now.



t.
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That's beautiful. Thanks for posting that. I think I heard a bell ring. t?
Wink.
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The locals have a love affair with the Packers, rather than the Lions.
----------------

That's not too bad. I always liked the Packers when I was a kid. There was no point in rooting for the Redskins. <g>

arrete
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They always have someone living at their house who have been under "Hard times". A lot of times that just means they don't want to pay their own rent.

I wonder what would happen if they moved to Chadron.
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Look at demographics, which many were surprised by in election 2012.

Look at demographic trends.

Look at the mentalities of those new demographic realities.

Look at the ideals and attitudes being taught to those new demographics via schools and culture.

What evidence is there that America will still be populated by americans?

And therefore, how do we know that the "New Americans" will insist on eventually doing the right thing?

I'm not confident.

JEdiG


This is not just theoretical speculation we conservatives like to engage in. What we have been saying will happen is actually coming to fruition in this country. It's real! We are on the cusp of becoming a country where the takers who vote are greater than the makers who vote and once that happens, America is over. It will be extremely difficult for any republican, even if RR was alive and ready to run, to become president. And once the constitutional conservatives in Supreme Court die and are replaced by democrat presidents, there will be a permanant liberal bias and agenda in two branches of government. Eventually, the republican governors will be outvoted because locally the takers will eventually win out. Then we are finished. I don't see much hope for my children, who have been taught personal responsiblity, fiscal responsibility, personal intitiate, or for my grandchildren. We are on the path to ugliness and it's not a pipe dream for libs anymore.
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What in the 2012 election results would bolster this claim?

JediG
____________________________

that most of them did not vote
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There was no point in rooting for the Redskins

Racist!
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Because they do not WANT to emulate the failure they left.
***

What in the 2012 election results would bolster this claim?

JediG

____________________________

Jedi just to go a little further than they did not vote, take a look at this post from PA

http://boards.fool.com/conservative-regulation-30469358.aspx...

What are these folks going to vote on? You do not speak English and then you have folks lying to you that conservatives are evil people?

What information is being presented? You are making an assumption that they are voting based on policy. My assumption is that they have n friggin idea about policies, heck if I watch MSM news sources, I get NOTHING regarding policy, someone with less choices is going to be an informed voter?

Does is seem reasonable to you to ascribe desire for some policy regarding welfare to be the choice of people who have no idea what the other side is, except against them?

Yes, the immigrant population is a problem. But only a problem because if you have a solid propaganda machine they are easier to influence, and the Conservatives remain to stupid to understand the battle they are fighting.
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I don't see much hope for my children, who have been taught personal responsiblity, fiscal responsibility, personal intitiate, or for my grandchildren. We are on the path to ugliness and it's not a pipe dream for libs anymore

THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated
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THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated
______________________________________________

How did Dems and liberalism conquer the minority communities?

IT is a question each person who hopes for better should ask themselves

Some have the mistaken belief it was through giveaways.

It was through peddling hopelessness and helplessness.

Libs can not win, they never could, but they are quite ready to accept your surrender.
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Some have the mistaken belief it was through giveaways. It was through peddling hopelessness and helplessness.

I think it was both. "You're hopeless and helpless AND we will save you [with giveaways]."
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They've killed the notion of competition in today's graduating college kids.
=======================================

Yep.
You often hear that they want to work for a non-profit after graduation.
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"They've killed the notion of competition in today's graduating college kids"


Obama and the drones are still pushing for a bill that would 'end' your student loan obligation if you spent 10 years in a position like community organizer or working for a non-profit 'doing good'.....

The kids are hoping that something like that passes....they can study lib arts in college.....get a trivial job at a non-profit 'social do gooder' type entity......and have their $200,000 student loan 'forgiven'...... while likely collecting food stamps and other government benefits...



t.
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"Art, I wonder if your sister, when she lived in Sweden, ever heard of Helen Sjöholm, who's quite famous in Sweden."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk76_iqw-Pc - Catherine

-----------------------------


I don't know? They watched Swedish TV so I suppose if she is famous she may have seen her on TV? She lived in Sweden 7 years.

She still talks to her friends in Sweden (in Swedish) on Facebook. She took classes for several years and she reads and writes Swedish. She is much better in language and grammar than I am.

Art
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"Having a bachelor's degree does not prevent one from working at McDonald's or other menial labor." - Cellospice


She worked for Nabisco setting up displays in stores. She made $38,000/year which was $10,000 more per year than I made. Her ex-husband has a degee in Agronomy & Soil Science and works setting up plays, concerts, etc. at the convention center. He is also a pretty good carpenter.

Like I said, there are thousands of old hippies in Athens, Georgia doing all sorts of things to survive. They are people who moved to Athens to go to the University of Georgia and just never left. They live in old houses out in the country and grow gardens, and are typical old country-hippies.

Art
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"My baby sister, age 54" - Art
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"You really are an old fART." JoshRandall



She will always be my baby sister and I will always love her no matter how many koo-koo decisions she makes in her life. She lives her life based on emotion rather than making rational long range decisions. But there is really nothing she can do that would make me not love her. She is my baby sister and she will always be my baby sister. We grew up together with our mom. Mom died when Robin was 10 and I was fifteen. We stuck together even after mom's death when we went to live with our father and step-mother and Lindytoes.

Art
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I understand that. My 30-year old son is still my baby boy. A keeper!
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lowstudent...

You said that most of them did not vote.

But, many of them did.

And enough of them did vote and Obama was re-elected despite a bad economy.

I refer to the fastest growing voter blocs we have.

JediG
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"Heh......it looks like a lot of folks will retire to mobile homes.....or should I say manufactured housing? Also known as 'trailers' in some parts of the country. Heck, you can buy yourself a 10-20 year old one, pay about $150 a month for a site, maybe pay $150 a month to pay off the loan on the old trailer.......and utilities are a hundred or so. Eat at home. Get a room mate....... get an ObamaPhone..... pay your Medicare premium and still have $300 or more a month after food and expenses.Lots manage on that. Heck, a minimum wage worker lives on that now." - tele


Exactly! You do what you have to do to survive. You live in a boarding house, you buy an old trailer and pull it off in the woods somewhere and run a wire to it and live in it, or you rent a little house in a little village or town somewhere.

Our ancestors lived in mud huts with thatched roofs and were infested with lice and round worms. Or they were nomadic and hunted and gathered. That is how our ancestors lived for the majority of human evolution.

Living in a little old dilapidated house in a little rural community is luxury compared to that!

Art
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So when they hit age 70 they'll have nothing. Not even a small condo paid off. So what happens?

They'll get $1500 a month in Social Security let's say. Tax that, they're left with $1250?

Rent, lights, phone, water, food?



If they have no other options, they can always move to Mexico or Ecuador or someplace where you can live (and live well) very cheaply. I've read articles in International Living about couples who retired to Ecuador and live very full lives (no skimping) on $1,000 a month -- or even less. (And that includes medical care.)

Or stay in the States and do a "Golden Girls" thing -- three or four retirees sharing a house together to cut living expenses.

Where there's a will, there's a way. But it might require thinking outside the box.
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"Where there's a will, there's a way. But it might require thinking outside the box." - andrew


My point exactly. If something happened to my wife I'd either move in with my sisters or let them move in here with me. Or go live with my brother or get a little house near where he lives.

Art
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You said that most of them did not vote.

But, many of them did.

And enough of them did vote and Obama was re-elected despite a bad economy.

I refer to the fastest growing voter blocs we have.
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These are facts, I never disagree with facts, only with perception.

My perception, is that a large part of their belief system is not being addressed, and that is the part that is naturally anti the liberal agenda.

They are a more religious, and more self reliant lot than many citizens -- that message is not getting to them, and that portion is not motivated to negate those who are getting the message.

I would never say there is not a problem, again denying the obvious is IMO silly.

I thought we were discussing the portion that did not vote, or the portion I feel that did vote, but were ill served with the information that got to them.

This should not be a black hole for the Republican Party. This should not be a group that sees conservatives in general as an enemy.

Again, it IS a problem, it should not be.
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