No. of Recommendations: 8
August 14, 1935:

The Social Security Act is signed into law, assuring some retirement income for all working Americans. Payroll taxes are set at 1%, for both workers and employers, on the first $3,000 of earnings.
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In other words, $3,000 in 1935 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $54,986.90 in 2018, a difference of $51,986.90 over 83 years.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1935-dollars-in-2018?amount=300...

Andy
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They always start at 1%... the frog has to stay inside as the water heats up slowly to a boiling point.

The Revenue Act of 1916 began the practice of adjusting tax rates and income scales. The original income tax was 1% for the bottom bracket, which was comprised of income up to $20,000, and 7% for the top bracket which was comprised of income over $500,000.

Source: https://www.efile.com/tax-history-and-the-tax-code/
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August 14, 1935:

The Social Security Act is signed into law, assuring some retirement income for all working Americans. Payroll taxes are set at 1%, for both workers and employers, on the first $3,000 of earnings.

--BigBunk
=== === ===
In other words, $3,000 in 1935 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $54,986.90 in 2018, a difference of $51,986.90 over 83 years.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1935-dollars-in-2018?amount=300......

Andy
== == == ==

Currently, payroll taxes have "ballooned" to 7.52% EACH, from the employee and the employer -- on the first $132,900.00 of wages [for 2019].

--BigBunk
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No. of Recommendations: 42
Currently, payroll taxes have "ballooned" to 7.52% EACH, from the employee and the employer -- on the first $132,900.00 of wages [for 2019].

Meanwhile, the payments to Social Security recipients have ballooned from $22 per month to an average of $1,400. Additionally, Social Security now covers a much great percentage of the population than it did in 1934, and more additionally, disability insurance in included, which it was not at the outset of the program.

Additionally, in 1934 about half of elder Americans lived in poverty. Now that number is around 10%, depending on the measurement.
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Currently, payroll taxes have "ballooned" to 7.52% EACH, from the employee and the employer -- on the first $132,900.00 of wages [for 2019].

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you nostalgic for the days when over 50% of all seniors in America lived in poverty? Or are you upset with the number of disabled people who are kept alive because they are now covered by diability insurance (part of today's Social Security)?
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GoofyCurrently, payroll taxes have "ballooned" to 7.52% EACH, from the employee and the employer -- on the first $132,900.00 of wages [for 2019].

squeeeeeeee: I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you nostalgic for the days when over 50% of all seniors in America lived in poverty? Or are you upset with the number of disabled people who are kept alive because they are now covered by diability insurance (part of today's Social Security)?

How is it that Social Security has been running at a surplus lately? Do we need to raise the SS tax? If so, do it. This has become just a part of the social contract. We owe it to ourselves, or something like that. A part of living in a civilized country is caring for the aged and the indigent. Yes, I do mean to take the homeless off the streets into dormitories so they can have a clean, safe place to sleep and eat. They are mentally (sometimes physically) damaged or they wouldn't be there. I saw a (large) black woman pushing her grocery cart containing all her worldly goods, and I wondered two things: How did she come to be in this situation, and Mein Gott! She is vulnerable to every horny guy who chooses to molest her.

Cheaper to put them in dormitories than to clean up after them. Even give them jobs in the dormitory if they are able to do it. (Some are so damaged they can't function at that level.)

If this be communism, then color me communist.

CNC
... Yeah, I got off topic. Sorry.
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What's actually true is, those lucky to make $132,900 a year pay EXACTLY the SAME amount into the system as the hundreds of thousands of top professional athletes, hedge funders, CEOs, Wall Streeters, doctors, lawyers and others in the top .1 and 01%.

If you're in that band, you pay almost as much as Lebron James, Serena Williams, Jamie Dimon, Warren Buffett, Joe Biden, George Soros and Bill Gates do.

The only people that "balloon" hurts are those that were making under $100K 10 years ago (where the payroll tax was then) and now make up to $133K.

It's the most regressive tax in the system and it's WAY beyond ridiculous that it hasn't been made even a little more equitable.
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"Cheaper to put them in dormitories than to clean up after them. Even give them jobs in the dormitory if they are able to do it. (Some are so damaged they can't function at that level.)

If this be communism, then color me communist."


Not a communist at all, nor is this communism.

It requires a couple of things though:
1. Someone to decide who needs to be rounded up and put in the dorm
2. Some way to keep them from being exploited (say to pay for their upkeep

Like the poorhouses in Dicken's time?
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Neuromancer: Like the poorhouses in Dickens' time? (Please excuse my punctuation correction.)

I suppose so, a bit. My vision is not so punitive as were Dickens', and not so much like a penitentiary. Would have to be voluntary. Therein is a possible problem. My reading persuades me that many of our homeless are so damaged they would not accept such a dormitory. There actually is such a house in San Pedro, CA. People can live there, but they usually leave after a few days, as they can't accept the regimentation of such a life. And possible peer pressure. But some can't accept any regimentation at all. Prefer to sleep on a piece of cardboard on the sidewalk.

Wish I were omnipotent to fix them in some way. But if there were housing (and food) available, it would be "easier" to boot them off the sidewalks and out from under bridges.

CNC
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It's the most regressive tax in the system and it's WAY beyond ridiculous that it hasn't been made even a little more equitable.

Since the maximum benefit is capped,it makes sense to cap the maximum contribution. The moment the maximum contribution is uncapped there will be pressure to uncap the maximum benefit because it's "fair". I'm happy with both being capped.
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No. of Recommendations: 12
The county I live in had a significant problem with veteran homelessness a few years ago. Then the President challenged the nation to do something about it. My county happens to have a lot of resources that can help with this -- folks over at the military hospital teamed up with our local homeless support groups and the VA. One by one, they got those folks housed, fed, and on the medications they needed to come back to a more stable place. It took a significant amount of intervention, and it is work that continues in the veteran and non-veteran population. What I notice is that of the guys I used to see standing on the street corners, only one remains. Of the women I used to see pushing shopping carts, there are still a few. But they are cleaner, and they look like they are somewhat healthier.

And it is not the only way to do it. Municipalities all over the country have programs to reduce homelessness. Some start with housing, some start with opportunities to work, some start with other things. Interestingly, they all seem to be effective. I think what they all have in common is that they begin to reconnect the homeless person to other people and to society in general, and rebuild trust that it is possible to live differently.

It doesn't work all the time, and it takes repetition. Nonetheless, it is possible. Here's a link to my town's work in the larger county effort:

https://bethesdacares.org/about-us/our-work/

This is work that is one person at a time. If you want to end homelessness where you live, there are probably lots of ways to do it. Money always helps. Meeting a homeless person's eyes and smiling, instead of averting your eyes? That helps too. Offering a bottle of water (dehydration is often an issue) helps. If there is a homeless person you see every day? Nod and smile. Ask their name. NOT because you are going to help them more, but because that tiny crack into the rest of the world itself is beneficial.

ThyPeace, shares her leftovers with the guy who sits at the corner of the parking garage, and smiles when she walks past, even when it's hard.
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Yes, I do mean to take the homeless off the streets into dormitories so they can have a clean, safe place to sleep and eat.

We had a guy in St. Paul, MN, that chose to live on the street:

https://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2018/12/in-st-paul-a-legen...

His relatives tried many times to get him off the street. But he would leave and go back.

Often when I took the city bus up Rice Street, I would see him pushing along his 2 or 3 grocery carts. For a while, with a dog, until Animal Control officers took the dog away because "winters were too harsh for a dog to live outside":

http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues/messages/...
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Currently, payroll taxes have "ballooned" to 7.52% EACH, from the employee and the employer -- on the first $132,900.00 of wages [for 2019].

How do you figure? SS tax is 6.2% of compensation income up to the value you've shown, paid by the employee and the employer, for a total SS tax payment of 12.4%. Medicare is another 1.45% by employer and employee = 2.9% of compensation income, with no upper income limit. For those married households with MAGI > $250,000 there is a .9% Medicare surtax

BruceM
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Municipalities all over the country have programs to reduce homelessness.

Meanwhile, low income housing is firmly opposed in many of the suburbs. Not in my back yard rings loud and clear.

And in that case are we really committed to solving the problem? Or do we give it lip service and think it's someone elses problem?
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And in that case are we really committed to solving the problem? Or do we give it lip service and think it's someone elses problem?

What problem are you do-gooders trying to solve? The solution depends on that.

- Homeless are home-less. OR, There should be no homeless in a rich country. Solution: give them homes. Raise taxes or issue yet more debt.

- Homeless are hungry and cold/hot. Solution: give them food and temporary shelters that they can come and go out of.

- I don't like to look at the homeless. Solution: don't look.
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Paul: Meanwhile, low income housing is firmly opposed in many of the suburbs. Not in my back yard rings loud and clear.

Troo dat, but the suburbs are being invaded by the homeless. Anywhere there is a park nearby to hole up or put up a tent (Tents are cheap and portable, no?), they will be there. I figger the homeless aren't going to go away. We collectively need to find a way to deal with these seriously damaged people. They can't help themselves. Further, they seem to have no desire to do so. Maybe the Dikensonian poor houses are the right answer - with locks so they can't get out? Draconian, no?

CNC
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What problem are you do-gooders trying to solve? The solution depends on that.

- Homeless are home-less. OR, There should be no homeless in a rich country. Solution: give them homes. Raise taxes or issue yet more debt.

- Homeless are hungry and cold/hot. Solution: give them food and temporary shelters that they can come and go out of.

- I don't like to look at the homeless. Solution: don't look.


Did you have a point? Or are you just wasting bandwidth?

CNC
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What problem are you do-gooders trying to solve?

The usual origin of the homeless problem is that people can't find a place to live they can afford. Low income housing helps address the problem especially for those with family.

I don't think the "get a job" or "let them starve" approach has much merit.

We can do better.
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I don't think the "get a job" or "let them starve" approach has much merit.

We can do better.


If you want to go that route, I think we pretty much have to go with a UBI. It could replace a lot of social programs. If a justification for SS is so that the elderly won't starve (or "have to eat cat food"), shouldn't that same consideration be provided to everyone?

==========

On a related note, Denmark used to have 5 years of unemployment benefits. Oddly enough, most people got new jobs either in the first several months or the last several months of that 5-year period. So they shortened it to 4 years. After several years of seeing the same pattern, they decided to cut it in half, to 2 years.

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/why-denmark-is...

So, from their perspective, the "let them starve" attitude seemed to motivate a lot of people. As long as they had an income, they appeared to have little incentive to "get a job".
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The usual origin of the homeless problem is that people can't find a place to live they can afford

That's certainly the popular thinking....increasing housing costs...to include PITI or the rent from a houseowner paying the PITI, utilities and rising property taxes ====> increasing homelessness. However, around here at least (SW Washington), the local paper did a survey of outlying mobile home parks and found multiple vacancies. These 'estates', to include manufactured home communities, are typically low cost and affordable for most low income households. From The Columbian article...

Renting a concrete pad is more affordable. At Van Mall RV Park, located among several car lots just outside the city limits, sites cost $400 to $530 monthly depending on whether it’s a back-in or pull-through. The month-to-month rent includes water, sewer, garbage, Wi-Fi and cable, as well as use of the onsite restroom, shower and laundry facilities. Tenants pay for electricity.

https://www.columbian.com/news/2019/jun/16/as-housing-costs-...

Available RV and Long term trailer parks

https://www.yellowpages.com/vancouver-wa/rv-parks-with-month...

Buying an older single-wide or RV to put on the pad is pretty inexpensive with affordable loan payments for most low income individuals. But for those unable to afford even that, there are those with older units willing to donate them through a local charitable organization (sorry, can't find their web site). IOW, there are ways to provide very low cost housing with a little work.

So why the vacancies with so many homeless? One reason could be homeless don't know about it or its too far out for homeless without a car and not near bus service. Those are possible. Or is there another reason? Do some/many of the homeless have the means to live independently and simply choose to live in vacant lots rent free where others feed and clothe them, thus saving them the cost of rent allowing them to use the savings on their lifestyle, such as booze, drugs or gambling? For those in the latter group, assistance is almost certainly needed for most that will involve counselling, case work and perhaps some tough love (city prison and road work crews). But my primary point here is that assuming homelessness is simply a result of the high cost of housing, for most, is over simplistic.

There's the old Libertarian saying that we should not forget....

"If you offer it for free, a line will form"

Just sayin

BruceM
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