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No. of Recommendations: 4

I rarely come by TMF any more, but noticed this tidbit in the Washington Post.

http://www.washtech.com/news/media/12890-1.html

Looks like the end of the road is in sight.

Sic transit gloria, Gumby.

DMJ
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No. of Recommendations: 123

Looks like the end of the road is in sight.

Just a couple of thoughts on this:

What did TMF ever do to people that they'd be happy about their demise? I don't get it. I've enjoyed just about every moment here since January 1999 when I first registered and they taught me an enormous amount about how investing works.

I also don't understand why people complain about TMF and internet advertising in general (you know, banner ads and such). Surely, these businesses have a right to make a profit? I mean, we're reading these pages for many minutes, sometimes hours a day, for FREE. Is it wrong for them to want to get paid for providing so much for nothing?

I'm a regular reader of Salon.com. When they asked for subscribers several months ago, I gladly paid them the $30/year they requested. Why not? Why should I be able to read what writers write for free? Don't the writers deserve to get paid? Don't the hundreds of web designers deserve to get paid for working to get these pages up? I'm being informed and entertained all at the same time.

I guess somebody needs to explain it to me.




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No. of Recommendations: 15
>I also don't understand why people complain about TMF and internet advertising in general (you know,
>banner ads and such).

I personally have nothing against banner ads per se; what I object to is the use of banner ads to

1) launch other windows (yes, sometimes those pop-up windows come from the banner site); this has prompted me to list every such advertiser as "untrusted" in Internet Explorer, and simply to disable javascript access for them in iCab;

2) detract from the content of the page. In TV and radio, ads cannot coexist (other than in branding, which can also cause me to stop watching/listening if done in a way that detracts from the show) literally at the same time. In print, they can't dance around. Ads that do this either cause me to stop coming to the site, or to disable all access to that advertiser.

Sometimes I swear banner ads seem deliberately made to load slowly in a manner that delays the loading of the page, so that the banner ad is the only thing on the page for a short time.

3) track my movements around the web. Many banner ads come from a central source. They thus can use either cookies (which I almost always disable from central ad sites) or IP addresses to create profiles of visitors' web visits to any site which holds the banner ads (and possibly the single previous site). That's personal data. I'd be against them tracking me from building to building in the city, and I'm against them tracking me from web site to web site.

Jerry
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No. of Recommendations: 3
I'd surely pay $30 or so a year to keep TMF board alive -- and would have done the same for ATHM (two services I actually enjoy and use) -- but no one ever asked? Why don't these services charge their users?

I just hope that if ATHM goes bankrupt and T picks it up, or whatever, that one day I just don't wake up to find my "apple.excite" home page gone -- that would really be a sad day for me.

As I'll soon be moving from San Francisco to Helsinki (after living in Silicon Valley -- Appl country -- most of my life), I've been looking forward to having some familiarities; like being able to do the two things I really enjoy doing on my iBook every day: logging on to my apple.excite home page and checking out aapl messages on TMF. Please tell me is isn't so -- I want to hear that TMF's demise is not imminent.

aaplfaithful

P.S. Not leaving before the Paly store opens this Saturday; so see you on University Ave, Mr. Herring.
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No. of Recommendations: 7
What did TMF ever do to people that they'd be happy about their demise? I don't get it. I've enjoyed just about every moment here since January 1999 when I first registered and they taught me an enormous amount about how investing works.

Personally, I'm not happy to see TMF go down the tubes and I hope my post did not suggest that I am. I think the site has real positives and I'll miss it when it goes dark, as now seems very likely.

I'll admit to my share of Schadenfreude at seeing a number of other internet ventures go broke, particularly those that used to trumpet the gospel of the "new economy" with its "first mover's advantage" and everything zipping along in "internet time". TMF got caught up in some of that hype, but there was also some healthy skepticism about the valuations of tech companies and the long-term prospects of the speculative bubble formerly known as the internet economy. Too bad TMF is rotting away with all of the dot-compost.

DMJ
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No. of Recommendations: 15
What did TMF ever do to people that they'd be happy about their demise?


Reports of TMF's demise are highly exaggerated.

As for my job, that's another story.

Cheeze
:-)
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No. of Recommendations: 8
There are several board (Improve the Fool, LOOTP, Current Events, Apple) where this issue has been discussed.

To paraphrase a great quote: "Rumors of TMF's demise, have been greatly exaggerated."

I don't think that anyone can deny missing some of our favorite fools, and no one wants TMF to go under. The Brother's G claim that they should be able to keep it going at the companies current size. Let's all hope so.

Frankly, I'm a little sick of all this nay-saying & negativity. You may claim its just a "realistic" perspective/opinion. However, I've seen a lot of otherwise reasonable people in the past 3 weeks making statements or analysis that are uncharacteristicly negative and disproportionate compared to the actuality of the bad news.

Yes, we are in a recession.
Yes, the country / world is in a funk right now.

But, take a deep breath, go outside, rent a DVD. Click on a few banner ads. Everything will be fine (now if I can just convince my wife to let me get a Cinema Display :-)


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No. of Recommendations: 5
well i am glad someone pays the salon fee
salon is cool
and they're in san francisco
and we own saln stock
jenn liked salon (she knows the writer annie lamott and AL had a column in 'mothers who think') and since content is and always will be king, we put .00001% of the portfolio in saln (ohh sorry salnc)

the good thing, jerry, about AOL is the variable IP so successful profiles can't be built by anyone (except aol...)

i wonder do people that >shock< PAY FOR MAGAZINES
even especially SUBSCRIPTIONS THAT COME TO THE HOUSE
do those people carefully CUT OUT the ads or CROSS THEM OUT with a big black marker
because
THE AD OFFENDS
hehehe

i personally
just me
i like ads
i like commercials
i decide where to buy a lot of things based on ads
and i place values judgements
and directional mores
on the content (always king) of the ads i see.

look at the change in ads on the 'Net
that tell one much about what's going on
what works what doesn't
how "web savvy" people are
which friends forward "reply to this mail and get $459.32 from Intel"
and for how long...

what a horrible violation of 1st amendment rights
if such things were blocked
for their uncouthyness

there are always two sides to the story
but usually in the debate between
consumers/ companies
the companies rarely show up to jump in the blather

there needs to be legislation on "cookies" and such
there is always a fine line to walk betwixt
FREE MARKET
and GOVERNMENTAL INTERVENTION
but for what it's worth
i think the cookie placers
have the opportunity to gather much more
useful information than
the methods they've used before
and as such
we should get more for our money

you think the wall street journal would be $1.00
if it had no ads?
the ads subsidize our "married with children"
which in turn is sold to the people all over the world

who then think that 'satire' is 'reality'

(today walt mossburg in the WSJ says that it's time for a change on the internet)

my mom likes people magazine
it has lots of ads
i don't think she minds
i like vanity fair mag
it has LOTS of ads
don't care
i think the people that dislike ads
and disable web ads
are a small vocal minority

part of the problem with the "participant-observer"
model of internet observation....

it's time for an analog revolution
and it just may well happen
electronically

][erring
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No. of Recommendations: 4
As I'll soon be moving from San Francisco to Helsinki (after living in Silicon Valley -- Appl country -- most of my life), I've been looking forward to having some familiarities; like being able to do the two things I really enjoy doing on my iBook every day: logging on to my apple.excite home page and checking out aapl messages on TMF. Please tell me is isn't so -- I want to hear that TMF's demise is not imminent.
aaplfaithful
P.S. Not leaving before the Paly store opens this Saturday; so see you on University Ave, Mr. Herring
-------------------------------------

well you know theres an alt.posting.site
on yahoo groups called "esrever", just in case

(that's REVERSE, backwards incase you don't write it down)

HEY YALLers i will (of course) be at the palo alto store opening
which i've been DVing and visiting since jan2001

i will be the ONLY person there with an EXCITE@HOME
hat on
hahaha...
i got it at goodwill last week for $1.95

i'll be taking the train down from SF
and i'll get there when i get there
hopefully well before 10am
SAVE ME A PLACE IN LINE

maybe i'll tshirt transfer something
i'll bring my OS X.1 freeware disks too
cuz they're packed with cool apps
in the latest versions

][erring
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No. of Recommendations: 9
i like ads
i like commercials
i decide where to buy a lot of things based on ads


Hi, I've never posted on this board before, but came to look at the post with 20 recs because it was about a subject that I hope isn't true.

I've found this whole Internet advertising thing interesting, as a person who's worked in newspaper reporting, layout, composition and advertising graphics on and off for years, I'm very familiar with advertising psychology and such issues.

I don't think I'm affected much by ads anywhere -- but then again, who knows? I do tend to look at lots of them in newspapers and magazines. I usually don't like them on TV because I find them disruptive, intrusive. I usually listen to music on radio in the car and switch stations almost every time an ad comes on.

There are some print & direct ads I really like, such as coupons and sales. These do definitely affect what I buy.

Internet advertising is still in an early stage, and it's got to be tough for advertisers to know what works. Clicking on an ad? I've clicked on maybe 20 ads in the 3+ years I've been on-line. What's the point of clicking on ads to 'save' a website, if we're not going to purchase any products or services from the advertiser? We not expected to click on ads in papers or magazines or on TV, thank goodness. Does that mean we're not affected by them?

TMF is riddled with ads for brokers. They must find value in advertising here or they wouldn't continue to do so. I've had three brokers since first coming to TMF, and I didn't find any of them from ads. I found the second two mainly from reading message boards here. Maybe TMF should charge commission to companies when they are mentioned on message boards? :-)

Pop-up ads are completely useless IMHO. Almost everyone hates them, and I've found I can easily click them off before they load, without ever seeing for one second what they're going to say. The banner ads make a lot more sense -- it's typically on the screen for a much longer time, so we're at least seeing it peripherally or subconsciously, perhaps.

Just some rambling thoughts.

Shel
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No. of Recommendations: 9
I guess somebody needs to explain it to me.


don't worry, David will.. may not make sense, but David will try.

Paul
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No. of Recommendations: 2
>>> don't worry, David will.. may not make sense, but David will try.


ha ha ha ... bwah bwah

very funny.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
>i think the cookie placers
>have the opportunity to gather much more
>useful information than
>the methods they've used before
>and as such
>we should get more for our money

Alvin Toffler discusses this in PowerShift, about the increase in usefulness of information as cross-referencing becomes more and more viable. I strongly recommend it (although you can get the gist simply by listening to Warren Zevon's "Lawyers, Guns, and Money"). The distributors want to compile the information and keep it from retailers and manufacturers; the retailers want to compile the information and keep it from the distributors and manufacturers; and the manufacturers haven't figured out how they can possible keep the information for themselves without having to pay the retailers and distributors for it. Everybody wants to make money on the information collected from consumers, and nobody wants to pay the consumers for that information. Here is where I think the can help--information for information is a fine trade. But I want the transaction open, obvious, and honest.


>i think the people that dislike ads
>and disable web ads
>are a small vocal minority

Depends on what you mean by web ads; when I teach beginning web browsing and mention that disabling javascript disables pop-up ads, half the class will suddenly pull out their pens and start taking notes :*)

I like ads too. Some of my best friends are ads. It's only the undesirable ads that I disable.

Jerry "I don't think you can get AIDS from burning down your house, but I see your point" Stratton
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No. of Recommendations: 2
I usually don't like them on TV because I find them disruptive, intrusive. I usually listen to music on radio in the car and switch stations almost every time an ad comes on.
...
Pop-up ads are completely useless IMHO. Almost everyone hates them, and I've found I can easily click them off before they load, without ever seeing for one second what they're going to say.


I just wanted to say that Shel hit many many good points right on the head! Advertising is irritating, and I would love to see it reduced.
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No. of Recommendations: 4
Personally, I'm not happy to see TMF go down the tubes and I hope my post did not suggest that I am.

Hey DMJ,

No, no. I wasn't talking about you. Your post just made me think that I have read MANY negative things about TMF on other boards (and a few on this board) and I just didn't understand what they had done to deserve all the bad sentiment.

I'd pay $30/year to keep reading and posting here; as long as my favorite participants came along, too. :-)



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No. of Recommendations: 2
>>> I just wanted to say that Shel hit many many good points right on the head! Advertising is irritating, and I would love to see it reduced.


Which ironically would increase its effectiveness, but advertisers are caught in their own prisoners dilemma.


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No. of Recommendations: 3
I'm a regular reader of Salon.com. When they asked for subscribers several months ago, I gladly paid them the $30/year they requested. Why not? Why should I be able to read what writers write for free? Don't the writers deserve to get paid? Don't the hundreds of web designers deserve to get paid for working to get these pages up? I'm being informed and entertained all at the same time.

i think you hit it on the head there.

We are the writers for TMF - we provide their content, and they treat us with contempt and censorship.

I wouldn't mind so much if they actually contributed decent writing and analysis.

I wouldn't mind if they had web designers who knew what they were doing and could design reliable pages.

the amount of time I have spent cursing at TMF because of their darn servers that make you hit 'reload' and wait 30 seconds for a page, is incredible.

When TMF's servers are stalling all the time, the ads are just another frustration that slows down usage of the site. Basically, apart from the people that frequent the Apple board, TMF is tedious and dull, and don't really provide anything for the users.

We have had to fight just to keep this community from being invaded by trolls with the assistance of TMF.

DVid
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No. of Recommendations: 4
TMF got caught up in some of that hype, but there was also some healthy skepticism about the valuations of tech companies and the long-term prospects of the speculative bubble formerly known as the internet economy. Too bad TMF is rotting away with all of the dot-compost.

That's the other reason I am sick of TMF.

I orginally came here because I liked their idea of being a contrarian investor, or at least an 'alternative' investor who thinks for themselves. I also liked the imagery of the court jester, and the idea that we could have fun while talking about finance.

I was sucked in. After actually using the boards, I found that to be nothing more than an image for PR. Sure, there are some great contrarian investors around - but the actual official Fools did not seem to have any idea about the kind of investment that TMF was supposedly all about. Rather than being contrarian, TMF was just as rah-rah about the internet as anyone else.

So there's that - the fact that they lied about their mission "To educate, enrich and amuse"

Especially on the last one. Humor was stricken from TMF in a Kristallnacht of censorship, where only the pro-Wintel would survive. Anybody attempting humor or satire would be shot, in favor of miserable 'numbers only' analysis.

So I came to this site looking for something for the smart, independent small investor. Now I have to look at all these cheesy ads which do not have any attraction for me - and in fact make TMF look cheap and contemptible for running such 'hard sell' ads that are irrelevant to the demographic of independent investors.

Basically, you readers of TMF:AAPL are the only reason I come back. Everything else about TMF makes me want to puke.

DVid

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No. of Recommendations: 3
Frankly, I'm a little sick of all this nay-saying & negativity. You may claim its just a "realistic" perspective/opinion. However, I've seen a lot of otherwise reasonable people in the past 3 weeks making statements or analysis that are uncharacteristicly negative and disproportionate compared to the actuality of the bad news.
Yes, we are in a recession.
Yes, the country / world is in a funk right now.


I'm not overly negative now, because I always have been.

that's the advantage of being bearish - you are prepared for the worst.

What I want to know - is where was TMF's negativity before?

I tried to warn about the recession that was coming. I tried to put a damper on the over-jubilant over-evaluation - but TMF staffer would laugh at me.

So it is a very Schadenfruede pleasure to see my predictions come true. Of course, I don't want anyone to lose their jobs - but then again, I would not have taken a job with a dotcom in the first place.

It was their decision to work for TMF and believe the hype. It's hard to feel sympathy for people living off a $30 million venture capital seed, without even having to have a viable business plan.

It's like "let's play pretend CEOs" or something. If they were going to waste all that money, they could have at least done something worthwhile with it - but TMF got worse as it got more money to spend.

I jst find it annoying that there are these people who are able to make money off hype, while many people with good, viablke ideas never get funding because people like TMF blow all the investment capital.

DVid
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No. of Recommendations: 0
don't worry, David will.. may not make sense, but David will try.

Ah, Paul - prescient as ever.

;)

DVid
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No. of Recommendations: 3
I'm a regular reader of Salon.com. When they asked for subscribers several months ago, I gladly paid them the $30/year they requested. Why not? Why should I be able to read what writers write for free? Don't the writers deserve to get paid? Don't the hundreds of web designers deserve to get paid for working to get these pages up? I'm being informed and entertained all at the same time.


Count me in - this is the ONE SITE I would pay actual hard dollars to be a part of - no question at all. If TMF is concerned about covering their costs, I would suggest that they do something that we can all live with.

I think I'll also post this to "Improve the Fool" board.

Jon
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Count me in - this is the ONE SITE I would pay actual hard dollars to be a part of - no question at all. If TMF is concerned about covering their costs, I would suggest that they do something that we can all live with.
I think I'll also post this to "Improve the Fool" board.


________________

Careful what you ask for. What else will you be paying for on the net.

I have absolutely no problem with ads or banners although the pop-ups are a real nuisance.

gammil
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No. of Recommendations: 1
I just did a quick thought experiment to see what ads I associate with this site: mostly discount brokers, and our new friend "Free Credit Report." The ads I've seen here always seemed to belong here to me -- people who do independent investing might well be interested in no-frills brokers, and keeping tabs on their credit history. I don't really mind them.

sjp
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No. of Recommendations: 4
HEY YALLers i will (of course) be at the palo alto store opening
which i've been DVing and visiting since jan2001


Remember your mission: To DV events prior to entering, and entering the store. Then edit that DV and send it to your web site. Finally, send a message to TMF so we can go watch the video at your web site. All this must be done from within the store.

If you accomplish this mission, you will recieve the "oooooos and ahhhhhs" of this august group, as well as the pride of knowing that you are the studliest of Mac Dudes!!

Paul
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Count me in - this is the ONE SITE I would pay actual hard dollars to be a part of - no question at all. If TMF is concerned about covering their costs, I would suggest that they do something that we can all live with.


I would have a hard time paying for this site.

David is correct on one important point: We provide the overwhelming amount of content on this site. Why should we pay for that which we provide? I find the content provided by the main online writers is poor. I like the Gardner's books, but those are out there to buy at Amazon, etc.

I don't mind the site having ads. That is, any more than any other site. They have to make money on something so they can pay for the servers for us to use for free.

But, it does remind me of the very old days, before ISPs, before web sites... remember the days of the computer BBS? Bulletin Board Systems. Text Based. Command Line. Real Men and Real Women with 300 baud modems, and they are plenty fast enough for the content. For the most part, we had to pay for our subscriptions to those services and we provided the content. I think the whole thing was so unique a forum that paying for it seemed reasonable. Now, we pay for our "on-ramp" and expect the rest of the internet to be virtually free. Of course, it can't be, not really. But, it does seem reasonable that it is the access we were paying for back in the BBS days, and for which we pay now in the ISP days. Once we have access, why pay more for content?

This market, the financial model that works, etc. has yet to fully develop. It will be interesting to watch.

Paul
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No. of Recommendations: 4
Basically, apart from the people that frequent the Apple board, TMF is tedious and dull, and don't really provide anything for the users.

That's generalizing. I do think the the boards and editorials are of some use. The problem is more or less that most of the information is meant for people living in the States. A short time ago a friend asked me about buying a house. He wanted me to tell him <by ICQ> what he should look out for since he just hates financial stuff.

At any rate, I looked up the information about housing on the TMF and it is really great. It explains everything you have to know when buying a house including taxes, credit, house repairs etc. I linked my friend to this site and he was surely amused. It was the first time he had ever had to do with financing a home and the Fool gave details about everything he wanted to know or what he should check in.

Furthermore, I believe boards and editorials dealing with credit card debts etc. do their part too. Most people who live on a week-to-week, respectively month-to-month basis do get help or suggestions in planing their household budgets and paying off their debts.

Rowan
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No. of Recommendations: 8
I was sucked in.

It sure does make addictive, doesn't it ;-)

Humor was stricken from TMF in a Kristallnacht of censorship, where only the pro-Wintel would survive.

You know, at the time I lived in the States, I would have never bothered with expressions regarding Hitler, Nazis and Reichskristallnacht, but since I moved to Germany I have become quite aware of the Germany history regarding the Dritte Reich. I read some books about concentration camps, the propaganda machine and the Hitler Regime in general. I have become touchy on this subject and it really disppoints me when people compare TMF to the censorship of the Reichskristallnacht. I've read enough to know, that even some seem to go as far as comparing TMF to Hitler etc.

Let's be careful how we chose our words. To compare TMF censorships to the Nazi Regime is humiliating those citizens who fought against these censorship <Deutscher Widerstand> and who serverly suffered under Hitler. To compare TMF to Hitler, is from my point of view, insulting those who were abused and killed by him. It is cynical to use these expressions.

Now I have to look at all these cheesy ads which do not have any attraction for me

Maybe TMF should give you the option to p-box certain ads. It works for trolls so why not for ads?

Rowan
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No. of Recommendations: 0
So it is a very Schadenfruede pleasure to see my predictions come true. Of course, I don't want anyone to lose their jobs - but then again, I would not have taken a job with a dotcom in the first place.

I wouldn't have worked in a dotcom either but that's beside the point. It seems, that quite a few people that started and worked in these businesses believed in this idea or even in some kind of mission. After all, we take personal risks all the time if we believe our efforts or hardships are worth it . Although we might fail, we can't accuse ourselves later for not even having at least tried.

I just find it annoying that there are these people who are able to make money off hype, while many people with good, viablke ideas never get funding because people like TMF blow all the investment capital.

It's really the <sharky> captial ventures companies who decide who gets to blow the money and in the meantime we all know what kind of criteria was important. Big words, big money, big dreams.....never mind the details or financial aspects, that only confuses.

Rowan
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No. of Recommendations: 0
David is correct on one important point: We provide the overwhelming amount of content on this site. Why should we pay for that which we provide? I find the content provided by the main online writers is poor. I like the Gardner's books, but those are out there to buy at Amazon, etc.

Good point. I really appreciate this site, but almost the only thing I do here is read & participate on message boards. I used to look at some of the other content more -- I wouldn't say the writing is poor -- but I don't really have any reason to read it.

The different portfolios was a cool idea, but even that was picked up and run with by the Mechanical Investing board, and a person can pretty much get all the info they need on the ports over there.

I guess interactive websites are likely to evolve in ways their creators didn't expect.
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No. of Recommendations: 6
I have never understood people who:

Want something for nothning:
Want to control what they get for nothning:

I suspect that these same people would complain ,even if they could control the weather.

One who would gladly pay for TMF access.

Fox
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Let's be careful how we chose our words. To compare TMF censorships to the Nazi Regime is humiliating those citizens who fought against these censorship <Deutscher Widerstand> and who serverly suffered under Hitler. To compare TMF to Hitler, is from my point of view, insulting those who were abused and killed by him. It is cynical to use these expressions.

My apologies. the term was sufficiently inflammatory to be a violation of Godwin's law.

I hereby withdraw my analogy.

Court writer, strike that from the record!

Dvid
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No. of Recommendations: 2
>>> My apologies. the term was sufficiently inflammatory to be a violation of Godwin's law.

For those who haven't heard of Godwin's law ........

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin's-Law.html

Godwin's Law prov.

[Usenet] "As a discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely --- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.

PS: it there are many similar corollaries (i.e. invoking XYZ will kill a thread in different contexts).

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No. of Recommendations: 6
Basically, apart from the people that frequent the Apple board, TMF is tedious and dull, and don't really provide anything for the users.


Funny you should use the words "tedious" and "dull," David, 'cause for some reason the very same thoughts just crossed my mind.

:-)

Cheeze
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No. of Recommendations: 11
We provide the overwhelming amount of content on this site. Why should we pay for that which we provide?


You provide 100% of the "content" of your telephone conversations. Why should you pay your phone bill?

I'm not saying TMF should charge for the website. I'm just saying that folks should get a grip on the basic mathematics of the situation.

Cheeze
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No. of Recommendations: 7
I'm not saying TMF should charge for the website. I'm just saying that folks should get a grip on the basic mathematics of the situation.
tmfCheeze
----------------------------

hey cheezePuffy combs
i've participated in the "fool survey" or whatever
and i've posted some stuff on the "improve the fool" board

but in light of recent events

blueHerring's, how to make money at the fool

at least from me...

you should let people that haven't "registered"
read any board as much as they want
so that the URL doesn't lead to a "Please Sign In"
page.
I think that's how it is now
don't ever change, baby

that way when I talk about not buying excite@home
and then later, they go bankrupt
then, see I can link those pages without
caveats... (i.e. "the sign in process is real easy")

ok? ok now once we have our little
"names"
you should offer keychains and coffe cups
with our name, and all of our favorite fools names
..kidding

you tuckin'?
rollin wit me?

ok now here's the big un
colored text
and embedded .jpgs
and i would cry if you included .pdfs
cause that would be ... so smart...

no no no you don't need quicktime movie plug-ins
that would be going too far
besides we make our own
http://homepage.mac.com/blueherring

but with a small handfull of fonts
and the ability to "upload" a picture of a chart or three
we all would learn from each other MUCH FASTER
and our points would be better understood
and the posters
the content creators
would feel that we could say what we want
the way we want
when we want
and for that, my fecund friend
i would pay $10 for a 30 day period
$50 for a 60 day period
$75 of one year
dig?

of course you would have people that put pictures of
mike dell superimposed on miniMe
next to bill "dr evil" gates
THAT'S THE POINT

and you could ruin it by having only "members"
able to see the pictures and whatnot

no no no see, the people that DON'T pay
would see a whole post
filled with a thompsons i-chart
and a signature tag line of a
bluefish.jpg
and they would go
"gosh i want to do that"

and they would "try it out"
for free for 10 days
and then they would have to pony up
the $ten bucks
then $ten more
then $50
see? 70 bucks for 8 months....
thats 105 for a year

let's see theres just shy of 4 million
"names"
so lets say 50,000 people sign up for
"premier memberships"
with access to some special fribble
of whatever
and the ability to to pretty pictures

thats
<typetypetype>
5.2 million a year in "new" revenue

that could pay the salary of
lots of TMFers

of course you may want to lower costs
by switching to OSX servers..

][erring
gosh what if 100,000 people did it
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Good suggestions, Blue. And, actually, stuff like what you've suggested is under consideration.

Don't expect it fast, though -- this stuff takes time to put together.

Cheeze
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You provide 100% of the "content" of your telephone conversations. Why should you pay your phone bill?

because they provide me with connectivity - something TMF does not do well, apart from providing a basic bulletin board.

Even then, the performance of the serversd is so poor that it wastes a lot of timme, and there are easier ways to communicate.

I'm not saying TMF should charge for the website. I'm just saying that folks should get a grip on the basic mathematics of the situation.

I have nothing against paying for good services.

Instead of asking us what we wanted, TMF wasted money on things like Soapbox - which I warned you would fail.

All this planning of grand schemes by TMF management, pre cious little involvement of the community in shaping those services.

The point is that TMF could have stayed small. they did not have to fall for the "riches from the internet" myth and try to turn it into an over-sized syndicated media venture.

TMF should have been listening to readers instead of mocking them.

David
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Don't expect it fast, though -- this stuff takes time to put together.

Only when you have unimaginitave designers and managers who don't know how easy it is to run a Quicktime server and would rather wrestle with Microsoft patches than provide a better service.

It's really quite easy to do.

David
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I think the reason people appear to take joy in the potential demise of the Fool harks back to basic human nature. There is a tendency to not want people to succeed at something that we might perceive that we could have done just as well. Why should the Gardner's get rich and famous for doing something any of us could have done? And probably done better? The same thing seems to adhere to Jeff Bezos, that pond-sucking weasel.

Personally, I think that anyone who actually goes out into the world and does something deserves all the respect in the world (TR has a great quote about getting bloody in the arena that I'm sure you're all familiar with). Anyone who takes secret glee in the Fool going under is a critic, quailing in their holes delighting that someone was proved not to be better than they were. I have bad news for them. TR was right that failing nobly is noble and failing at something big proves you were better than the critic.

Jeff
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