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NYTimes article about the Connecticut shooting immediately reminds the readers of:

"The response to mass shootings, even the one that nearly took the life of a member of Congress, Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona..."--blah-blah-blah

Nearly took her life? Six people died in that shooting, including Judge John Rolls (a Republican), and eighteen others were wounded, yet the only name we ever hear is Giffords, Giffords, Giffords, as if the other victims did not even exist.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/gun-control-ad...

~aj
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aj wrote: "...yet the only name we ever hear is Giffords, Giffords, Giffords, as if the other victims did not even exist."

Ticks me off.
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Hi Joe.

Maybe THIS is what burned you up?

“The political atmosphere has clearly changed because now we have solid evidence that the N.R.A. just was not effective in the last election cycle,” said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group. “This just has a feel that they won’t get away with doing nothing this time.”

Jack
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Hi Joe.

Maybe THIS is what burned you up?

“The political atmosphere has clearly changed because now we have solid evidence that the N.R.A. just was not effective in the last election cycle,” said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group. “This just has a feel that they won’t get away with doing nothing this time.”

Jack
_________________________________

I don't know about Joe

ME? It burns me up, that someone who is making a point about humans, that has nothing to do with politics, can have a person who shows themself of the most dubious character imaginable come and try to score political points in the immediate shadow of unimaginable tragedy, in a manner they believe will be annoying to others.

I do not get it, seriously, but human stupidity of this sort does burn me up.

Seriously? this is the person you chose to be today? What a shame.
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"“The political atmosphere has clearly changed because now we have solid evidence that the N.R.A. just was not effective in the last election cycle,” said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group. “This just has a feel that they won’t get away with doing nothing this time.”"

The NRA has been at the forefront to put the perps who commit gun violence away. No plea bargains. Off to the slammer for use of guns in robberies and assaults and violence.

On the other hand, the libs ALWAYS go after law abiding folks, and let the criminals off with a slap on the hand because 'they had a deprived child hood' or some other laughable reason.

the libs won't even put 7th offenders of drunk driving in jail, confiscate their cars, take their license for life, because 'it would hurt their self image' and crap like that.

I've got a lot better chance of getting mowed down by a drunk driver or kid texting....... than the 1 in 10 million chance of being the victim of a nutcase gone wild. The odds of winning the lottery and some big money are about that high.



t.
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NYTimes article about the Connecticut shooting immediately reminds the readers of:

"The response to mass shootings, even the one that nearly took the life of a member of Congress, Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona..."--blah-blah-blah


She was the target.

culcha
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culcha wrote: She was the target.

So? That doesn't mean the other victims didn't exist--which is the way they're treated by the media.
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And there was a child involved which the media seems to have forgotten about. I live in AZ and am WAY beyond sick of hearing about Giffords. I'm SORRY but she wasn't the only victim....but you'd never know it. If she was the target, so be it....doesn't excuse the media for making her the poster child and ignoring the rest of the victims who were there because of her.

The media's behavior in this new disgusting slaughter of children is making me almost as sick as the event. A bunch of slimeballs. I can't even watch it.

Both of these individuals (and the maniac in Colorado) were nuts and many people knew it. When do we stop tolerating that?? Way beyond time to re-open mental hospitals for those who refuse to take their meds and are a danger to others. Enough. Way beyond enough.
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Both of these individuals (and the maniac in Colorado) were nuts and many people knew it. When do we stop tolerating that?? Way beyond time to re-open mental hospitals for those who refuse to take their meds and are a danger to others. Enough. Way beyond enough.

Apparently, target shooting made this guy a psycho according to intercst:

http://boards.fool.com/maybe-it-is-the-culture-30434095.aspx...
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One does have to wonder about a mother that would teach her, apparently, obviously mentally ill child how to shoot guns. Let's also wonder about the father that would walk away from a situation that he, perhaps, knew was not going well. And they had the financial resources to get him any help he needed. There are just a whole lot of unanswered questions here. I'm suspecting mom thought junior was just fine....just a little quirky....perhaps just like mom.
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Both of these individuals (and the maniac in Colorado) were nuts and many people knew it. When do we stop tolerating that?? Way beyond time to re-open mental hospitals for those who refuse to take their meds and are a danger to others.
------------------

The reason it keeps happening is because there is no way for family to get these people off the streets. The person in question has to make overt death threats before the police can do more than keep them under locks for just 24 hours. I know a couple who moved to Hawaii to get away from a schizophrenic son. I sounds hard, but there was nothing they could do for him and he was very disruptive and violent. I believe he even did death threats, but wasn't locked up for them. I dunno.

And now they have this thing about letting them not take their drugs. I know the drugs are nasty and make you gain weight, but still.

arrete
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Apparently, target shooting made this guy a psycho according to intercst:

http://boards.fool.com/maybe-it-is-the-culture-30434095.aspx......
-----------------

So I'm going to bump off people with a bow and arrow because my father took us target shooting? Maybe LordArthur is a threat because he knows how to carve up a carcass.

arrete
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"One does have to wonder about a mother that would teach her, apparently, obviously mentally ill child how to shoot guns. Let's also wonder about the father that would walk away from a situation that he, perhaps, knew was not going well. And they had the financial resources to get him any help he needed. There are just a whole lot of unanswered questions here. I'm suspecting mom thought junior was just fine....just a little quirky....perhaps just like mom."


Methinks the mom might have had some issues.......her husband divorced her....probably because of her personality traits.

She took her son out of school because she felt he wasn't getting enough 'treatment' there. Probably that means special coddling. She was home schooling him. But that likely isolated him from the rest of his social peer group and he found his friends in the Goth discussion boards - and that isn't healthy.

Guns? so what? I grew up in a family that regularly went hunting and target shooting. Most of the kids in my town were in the Scouts and marksmanship was one of the things taught each year. We had a rifle range (.22 cal) in the BASEMENT of the ELEMENTARY school I went to!.....duh!...... every kid in town knew how to shoot - other than maybe one or two lib kids whose parents didn't want their spoiled brat joining the rest of the kids. At Boy Scout camp, we had skeet shooting and marksmanship as some of the 'electives' you could do - along with swimming, canoeing and hiking and forestry and knot tying and everything else. Oh, and we had AXES........ but didn't give our mothers 40 whacks.....

The kid needed help...I suspect the mother didn't really provide it and by taking the kid out of high school, isolated him too much.


We'll find out....for sure...... the story isn't going to die. The perps always seem to get way more coverage than they deserve. As far as I'm concerned they never should be named. Just anonymous 'John Doe'....no 15 minutes of fame. Just Mass Murder #x, buried in an unmarked grave somewhere.



t.
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concerning the school shooting.....I woke up yesterday and turned on the tv to hear the weather and it was the local station talking endlessly about the school shooting. I turned it off. I don't want to hear and watch the traumatic events over and over and over again. It's traumatizes me as well. It's like watching the Towers go down and all the 9/11 events over and over. I swear to goodness I curled up in a fetal position at one point wondering when the next bomb or plane was going to hit.

I can watch it a few times, hear all the information but then I need to move on for my own mental health. I feel sorry for all the kids out there who were killed and all those watching these events on tv. What innocence they had is now completely lost.

LD
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arrete wrote: Way beyond time to re-open mental hospitals for those who refuse to take their meds and are a danger to others.

I don't think meds are the answer, either.
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arrete wrote: Way beyond time to re-open mental hospitals for those who refuse to take their meds and are a danger to others.
----------------

I didn't write that. I'm not sure it's the solution.

arrete
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LD wrote: I don't want to hear and watch the traumatic events over and over and over again.

The networks turn it into a reality show, complete with special graphics and background music.
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And now they have this thing about letting them not take their drugs. I know the drugs are nasty and make you gain weight, but still.

arrete


--------------

Emily is now a hospice nurse but before that she was a psych nurse and worked for an outfit that did house calls for mental patients. One problem she encountered more than a few times was family members or other vistors who were stealing the patients meds and getting high themselves or re-selling.
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"So I'm going to bump off people with a bow and arrow because my father took us target shooting? Maybe LordArthur is a threat because he knows how to carve up a carcass." - arrete


I shot a squirrel through the eye the other day. Trust me, you really don't want me shooting at you. When I watch TV shows or movies and there's all these guns blazing and no one gets hit I can't help thinking to myself "how can these people be such bad shots?" If I was the one doing the shooting there'd be dead people lying all over the place.

My brother was once flabbergasted when I shot a blackbird sitting on top of a pine tree about a hundred fifty yards from me. He was like, "how did you do that?"

I grew up around guns and was constantly hunting and fishing and spearfishing.

Art
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"I don't want to hear and watch the traumatic events over and over and over again. It's traumatizes me as well." - luckydog


Yep, it's not just a lesson in separation to the families in Connecticut. It was a lesson in separation for the whole world.

And if anybody thinks it's going to end and never happen again they got another thing coming.

It has always been so and it will always be so. Experiencing separation is one of the main reasons we are here.

Art
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the libs won't even put 7th offenders of drunk driving in jail, confiscate their cars, take their license for life, because 'it would hurt their self image' and crap like that.

or random checks for valid driver's licenses because "it was taking food out of the mouths of the children of illegal aliens."

(No you can't make this stuff up.)
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Art wrote: And if anybody thinks it's going to end and never happen again they got another thing coming.

Think. They've got another think coming.
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Apparently, target shooting made this guy a psycho according to intercst:

http://boards.fool.com/maybe-it-is-the-culture-30434095.aspx......


I am shocked that our buddy intercst would think feel that way. <g>

intercst and his liberal attitude regarding firearms would not fare too well in my state of PA. We have one to two million deer hunters here who own high powered rifles and they are not going out and shooting up elementary schools.

He!! when I was in high school back in the dark ages, public high schools had rifle teams - the horrors! I don't recall any rifle team members shooting up schools.

Mike
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Think. They've got another think coming.

___________________________

I used to, all the time, then I got old, life simply isn't fair.
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Yep, it's not just a lesson in separation to the families in Connecticut. It was a lesson in separation for the whole world.

And if anybody thinks it's going to end and never happen again they got another thing coming.



Oh goodness. Been reading through this thread and didn't realize who "LordArthur" was until now. I'm a little slow on the uptake today, I guess. He, he, he... as 2828 would say. <grin>

Baron Andrew of Sealand
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Art wrote: And if anybody thinks it's going to end and never happen again they got another thing coming.

Think. They've got another think coming.



Actually, I don't know about that one. I've seen it stated both ways, and so far haven't come across a definitive one way or the other.

(Another one that confuses me is referring to a person as "white bread"... or is it "white bred"? I've used both on different occasions and people still corrected me anyway. I just can't win.)
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Art wrote: And if anybody thinks it's going to end and never happen again they got another thing coming.

CC wrote: Think. They've got another think coming.

Art wrote: Actually, I don't know about that one. I've seen it stated both ways, and so far haven't come across a definitive one way or the other.

The duality of THINK in the first part, coupled with THINK in the second part, makes this clever wordplay and is the whole reason the saying is memorable to begin with.

Since this wordplay has to do with duality, you ought to know better. ;-)
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Let's also wonder about the father that would walk away from a situation that he, perhaps, knew was not going well. And they had the financial resources to get him any help he needed.

This reminds me of a local/personal situation.

One of my attendings (residency teachers/physician) had a child with some type of schizophrenic disorder. Lead to marital strife. The mother, my attending, was doing everything she could to get medical treatment. The father was basically denying that anything was wrong.

Fast forward a few years. The child is now a young adult. Parents are divorced. A few run ins with the law over domestic disturbances. Then one night a neighbor calls, police find son wandering around the house covered in blood. Find mom stabbed to death in a hallway.

They had the resources. They could've institutionalized the child, who knows why they didn't. Money? Maybe, maybe not. How much and how far would insurance go? Would they have to make the kid a ward of the state? Locked up and drugged up like chickens in an egg laying farm, who wants that?

Plenty of mental health questions that will unfortunately be avoided by calling for more gun control laws.

JLC
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Emily is now a hospice nurse...

Maybe I missed it, but whats the latest update with Emily? I'm guessing still doing some rehab on the leg?

JLC
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Art wrote: "Actually, I don't know about that one. I've seen it stated both ways, and so far haven't come across a definitive one way or the other."
-----------------------------
"The duality of THINK in the first part, coupled with THINK in the second part, makes this clever wordplay and is the whole reason the saying is memorable to begin with. Since this wordplay has to do with duality, you ought to know better. ;-)" - Catherine

----------------------------


Catherine, I didn't write that, Andrew did. To be honest I don't understand what you are talking about? I'm not good with grammar at all. I don't know even know what a definitive is? I think it's one of those grammar words that my English teachers used to use?

Sorry, Art
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Art wrote: Catherine, I didn't write that, Andrew did. [...] I'm not good with grammar at all. I don't know even know what a definitive is?

This board has no definitive mechanism to quote what others have said.
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>>Emily is now a hospice nurse...<<

Maybe I missed it, but whats the latest update with Emily? I'm guessing still doing some rehab on the leg?

JLC


--------------------------

She is pretty much over with the rehab. The last formal PT ended in August which was some aquatic therapy. That was helpng so much that Emily joined the Y and kept up with the swimming exercises throughout Sept and October. Across this period she steadily improved, used the walker less, then graduated to a cane, then nothing at all except for the big plastic clunky orthipedic boot and a knee brace. Over the past month or so she has transitioned back to regular shoes and dropped the knee brace.

Walking too much on the rebuilt ankle still gets painful if she over does it. She thinking she may have to go back to have the ankle fused if the pain picture doesn't improve. Also if she goes back for ankle surgery she is going to have the tendons snipped to eliminate the hammer toes on the rebuilt foot. Not really for cosmetic reason but rather so she can better fit into regular shoes. Right now only certain sneakers have a big enough toe box.

She has made arrangements to go to work at the hospice place sometime in early January, just a few days short of the one year anniversary of her accident. So overall, she is doing great and feeling like she has her life back now. She just bought herself a 67 Cobra as a sort of "I'm back" present. She is such a gearhead.
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She just bought herself a 67 Cobra as a sort of "I'm back" present. She is such a gearhead.
---------------

That is so cool. Glad she's doing better.

arrete
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"She has made arrangements to go to work at the hospice place sometime in early January" - Bighairymike
------------------------

Hey Mike, ask her if she's ever heard of "Death Bed Visions" and if she's ever been close to anyone who has had any? They are like most favorite stories in the whole world. These two books are a fascinating read. They are about $10.00/each.

Two good books written by Hospice people are...

Final Gifts: Understanding the Special Awareness, Needs, and Communications of the Dying, by Maggie Callanan and Patricia Kelley

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Gifts-Understanding-Awareness-Co...

and...

Visions, Trips, and Crowded Rooms: Who and What You See Before You Die
by David Kessler

http://www.amazon.com/Visions-Trips-Crowded-Rooms-Before/dp/...

Art
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Visions, Trips, and Crowded Rooms: Who and What You See Before You Die
by David Kessler
--------------

I've got that one. Read part of it.

arrete
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art shares, "Visions, Trips, and Crowded Rooms: Who and What You See Before You Die" by David Kessler
--------------
"I've got that one. Read part of it."' - arrete



I find Death Bed Visions to be uplifting, positive, and they make me feel good and fill me with hope that one day I might get to see my mom again. That maybe 15 years old won't be the last time I got to see her. That she might be waiting for me there in the Light.

Art
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Art wrote: I find Death Bed Visions to be uplifting, positive, and they make me feel good and fill me with hope that one day I might get to see my mom again. That maybe 15 years old won't be the last time I got to see her. That she might be waiting for me there in the Light.

I can readily understand this wish. I, too, hope to see my mother, who died when I was six, again. I hope she's in the Light, too.

But, Art, for all the death bed visions you post here day after day that are positive, uplifting and make you feel good, how come you never discuss death bed visions, reported by hundreds if not thousands of people and memorialized on the Internet, that are anything but positive and uplifting? I found these without even trying.

Seven minutes in hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6va_5Wf2Pc

Near death experience in hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQUaJaOcTyk

Man sees Satan in hell; realizes there is life after death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEcz2hprZqs

Monk sees Buddha in hell and lives to tell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTFtSl0IoI

Woman went to hell after suicide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYdolY6SQuI

Man dies, comes back, talks about hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSjzY0s0SM

These people have seen hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt_ix4HGNLc

People testify about hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgGJld4nQiA

These people are every bit as sincere in what they say they saw as all the people you quote who say they saw heaven.

Interesting...there are also many videos of people of other faiths who claim they saw Jesus. I looked, but I couldn't find any by people of other faiths who claim they saw Muhammed, or Abraham (of the Jewish faith), or Buddha (except in hell) or any of the thousands of other "godthingies" about which telegraph is so derisive. Death bed visions seem to follow the Bible's description of the afterlife (positive and negative) pretty closely.
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"But, Art, for all the death bed visions you post here day after day that are positive, uplifting and make you feel good, how come you never discuss death bed visions, reported by hundreds if not thousands of people and memorialized on the Internet, that are anything but positive and uplifting? I found these without even trying." - catherine
------------------------------------------


First off Catherine Death Bed Visions are NOT the same thing as Near Death Experiences. A death bed vision is what people have at the end of life, like when they are in hospice. You obviously haven't read very much about them and are judging them with only a thimble full of knowldege and understanding. Before attacking something you obviously know very little about I suggest doing a little bit more investigation so you don't appear to be so obviously ignorant.

Secondly I answered this question before for you. Asking it again lends me to believe that you either didn't read, or ignored my answer? Either that or your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking? Only about 2% or less of NDEs are negative, and of that 2%, if the experience lasts long enough, the negative experience turns positive.

So, I reiterate.... It's like riding a roller coaster. Some folks get on a roller coaster and have a blast and some folks approach it with dread. The way you think and feel about the experience dictates what kind of experience you will have.

Heaven seems to be a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality, an "As a man thinket so is he" sort of place. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead it says "do not be afraid of the demons you encounter because they are only projections from your own mind."

The good thing is though that almost all negative near death experiences turn positive if they last long enough. Eventually the darkness disappears and the Light appears.

In Howard Storm's NDE, a classic negative NDE, eventually the fear he experiences disappears and the Light appears and his fear disappears.

Art
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"But, Art, for all the death bed visions you post here day after day that are positive, uplifting and make you feel good, how come you never discuss death bed visions, reported by hundreds if not thousands of people and memorialized on the Internet, that are anything but positive and uplifting? I found these without even trying." - Catherine
---------------------------


Why are you so focused on the negative? When people respond out of love they do things more abundantly, with joy, and overflowing. When people respond out of fear they do so only grudgingly, miserly, and reluctantly. Fear is a very poor motivator. They can't wait to escape from their captor whom they fear. Don't you think that the Creator of the Universe would know that?

It's like the story of Robin Hood. The Townsfolk helped and supported Robin Hood while only grudgingly and under duress helping the Sheriff of Nottingham. When people respond out of Love they do so abundantly and overflowing.

Art
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I find Death Bed Visions to be uplifting, positive, and they make me feel good and fill me with hope that one day I might get to see my mom again. That maybe 15 years old won't be the last time I got to see her. That she might be waiting for me there in the Light.
__________________________________________

Be careful what you wish for, you are likely in for years of "what did I tell you about eating roadkill lectures"

One thing we can all be sure of, we will find out. I hope for many years of I told you so from Art in what he envisions, it sounds just fine.
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Art wrote: First off Catherine Death Bed Visions are NOT the same thing as Near Death Experiences.

The examples I posted were NDE--I incorrectly called them death bed visions--of sufficient length to be considered as just as valid as your positive NDE. And 2% isn't 0%.
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Art wrote: Why are you so focused on the negative?

Why are you so in denial about the negative?
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This board has no definitive mechanism to quote what other people have said.

Neither does any other board I've seen, as it's possible for the person writing a reply to alter the text being "quoted".

And that's a virtue: if the message you're replying to is quite long and you're actually only replying to one paragraph, you can remove the other stuff.

(I also occasionally use this ability to clean up irksome grammar/spelling errors. In the quote above I have made a more substantial but still subtle change - that does not change the meaning. I could easily have changed the meaning.)
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warrl wrote: Neither does any other board I've seen, as it's possible for the person writing a reply to alter the text being "quoted".

Many do.
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"The examples I posted were NDE--I incorrectly called them death bed visions--of sufficient length to be considered as just as valid as your positive NDE. And 2% isn't 0%." - Catherine


If you cross over with fear that is what your experience will consist of.

Love is a much more powerful motivator than fear. When people do things out of fear they do them only reluctantly and in a miserly manner. When people are motivated by love they do things joyously and abundantly.

As for me and my house we shall approach the throne of God with joyfulness and thanksgiving instead of out of fear and trepidation.

Art
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"Why are you so in denial about the negative?" - Catherine


There is no such thing as darkness, only the absence of Light. When the Light appears the darkness disappears.

Art
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Art wrote: If you cross over with fear that is what your experience will consist of. Love is a much more powerful motivator than fear. When people do things out of fear they do them only reluctantly and in a miserly manner. When people are motivated by love they do things joyously and abundantly. As for me and my house we shall approach the throne of God with joyfulness and thanksgiving instead of out of fear and trepidation.

All lovely thoughts, but you've ocmpletely left justice out of the equation.

On the other hand, those who accept God's gift of eternal life through His Son will experience just what you describe.
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Art wrote: There is no such thing as darkness, only the absence of Light. When the Light appears the darkness disappears.

So all those people who say they experienced total darkness are lying?
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"All lovely thoughts, but you've ocmpletely left justice out of the equation. On the other hand, those who accept God's gift of eternal life through His Son will experience just what you describe." - catherine
-------------------


So here's this God who creates us and the Universe we live in and he is so miserly with his love and forgiveness that he only shows it to those who "believe" in his supposed "only begotten son" - whom no one is even really sure even existed?

Don't you see how ridiculous that is? It makes no sense at all.

If there was a Creator of the Universe then it makes so much more sense that He/She/It would create a Universe where EVERYONE was successful and accomplished whatever we were sent here to do?

A Universe where the soul's lessons were just embedded in our everyday lives and we were holistically imprinted with what we are supposed to learn regardless of who we are, or where we lived, or what we believe.

A place where belief is irrelevant and the soul's lessons are too important to leave it up to chance.

Art
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"So all those people who say they experienced total darkness are lying?" - catherine
------------------


They found what they expected to find. They found what you told them they'd find. That is what FEAR accomplishes. That is what you are preaching.

At the point they cry out for the Light the Light and LOVE appears. That is what I tell them they will find.

If the experience lasts long enough eventually the light appears.

Art
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Art wrote: So here's this God who creates us and the Universe we live in and he is so miserly with his love and forgiveness that he only shows it to those who "believe" in his supposed "only begotten son" - whom no one is even really sure even existed? Don't you see how ridiculous that is? It makes no sense at all.

It makes perfect beautiful sense.

http://usminc.org/images/MereChristianitybyCSLewis.pdf
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