No. of Recommendations: 28
Killing The Goose

"Killing the goose that lays the golden egg is one of those old fairy tales for children which has a heavy message that a lot of adults should listen to. The labor unions which have driven the makers of Twinkies into bankruptcy, potentially destroying 18,500 jobs, could have learned a lot from that old children's fairy tale.

Many people think of labor unions as organizations to benefit workers, and think of employers who are opposed to unions as just people who don't want to pay their employees more money. But some employers have made it a point to pay their employees more than the union wages, just to keep them from joining a union.

Why would they do that, if it is just a question of not wanting to pay union wages? The Twinkies bankruptcy is a classic example of costs created by labor unions that are not confined to paychecks.

The work rules imposed in union contracts required the company that makes Twinkies, which also makes Wonder Bread, to deliver these two products to stores in separate trucks. Moreover, truck drivers were not allowed to load either of these products into their trucks. And the people who did load Twinkies into trucks were not allowed to load Wonder Bread, and vice versa.

All of this was obviously intended to create more jobs for the unions' members. But the needless additional costs that these make-work rules created ended up driving the company into bankruptcy, which can cost 18,500 jobs. The union is killing the goose that laid the golden egg."

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/11/20/creat...

That's insane. It's funny that all you hear from liberals is about how much the executives were making.
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It's funny that all you hear from liberals is about how much the executives were making.

It's funny how all you hear from the right wing is about how much trouble the unions were/are.
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"Killing the goose that lays the golden egg is one of those old fairy tales for children which has a heavy message that a lot of adults should listen to. The labor unions which have driven the makers of Twinkies into bankruptcy, potentially destroying 18,500 jobs, could have learned a lot from that old children's fairy tale.

Except in the case of Hostess, the goose was't laying golden eggs for the workers. It was laying them for management and the hedge fund debt speculators who were cutting workers wages and raiding their pension funds.

The work rules imposed in union contracts required the company that makes Twinkies, which also makes Wonder Bread, to deliver these two products to stores in separate trucks.

Cute story, but it has absolutely nothing to do with bakers' strike. And Hostess's problem wasn't costs. The unions had already agreed to $100 million of cost-cutting... only to watch management reward themselves with big bonuses and then, three years later, demand more concessions from the unions. Hostess's problem is too much debt, declining revenue and sales, things the workers and their unions have absolutely no control over.

Is Thomas Sowell really an economist? Seems more like a polemicist. This is pretty simple stuff to understand and get right.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/hostess-and-bakers-un...
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That's insane. It's funny that all you hear from liberals is about how much the executives were making.

That's because they envy successful people and want to exact revenge on them and punish them while "compassionately" and by the force of government they pick the pockets of the successful and redistribute it to those who didn't earn it but who feel entitled to it. Gimme my free stuff. This is the essence of the democrat party.
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"The Twinkies bankruptcy is a classic example of costs created by labor unions that are not confined to paychecks."

Yet again you are ignoring a lot of evidence that is contrary to your worldview. Perhaps you might want to be more open minded. You might then be accepted elsewhere outside of this board.

Just sayin.
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No. of Recommendations: 24
It's funny how all you hear from the right wing is about how much trouble the unions were/are.

Three articles about unions in today's paper.

1) The damage done to the state by public employee pensions. Pensions workers in the private sector can only dream of. Pensions that are not affected by market fluctuations, like everyone else's retirements, because they are guaranteed by taxpayer money, even while those taxpayers see their wealth drop. Pensions that require cuts in education, public safety and other state functions to keep intact.

2) The longshoreman union, driving international business out of Portland and harming farmers throughout the PNW and upper midwest who can't move their grain.

3) Twinkies -- one union killing all its own jobs and thousands of jobs for other unions.

It's time for public employee unions to be eviscerated as they were in Wisconsin, which realized large and immediate budgetary benefits and saved thousands of jobs as a result. And for the entire country to become right-to-work.

--fleg
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"Cute story, but it has absolutely nothing to do with bakers' strike. And Hostess's problem wasn't costs. The unions had already agreed to $100 million of cost-cutting... only to watch management reward themselves with big bonuses and then, three years later, demand more concessions from the unions. Hostess's problem is too much debt, declining revenue and sales, things the workers and their unions have absolutely no control over."


Joke, joke.... the unions have ALL the control over 'work rules' that required that Hostess maintain two truck fleets. ONe to deliver 'bread'. One to deliver 'cake'.

They would not give on that.

Of course, that was likely 1000 jobs, but no...the unions insisted...that trucks run half empty, that you could not carry Wonder Bread and Twinkies in the same truck...no matter how thin the route....or the fact that some of each were delivered to thousands of 7-11 stores.

Sorry......the unions pretty much did themselves in.


That, and the Bloombergs of the world deciding what you could and could not eat.

He's a big democrat by the way. A big liberal. A big Nanny State type.


t.
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... the unions have ALL the control over 'work rules' that required that Hostess maintain two truck fleets....

Umm... the Teamsters settled. The bakers' struck. The bakers have nothing to do with trucks.

but no...the unions insisted...that trucks run half empty...

Who said anything about half empty? Nevermind, the truck issue is mostly irrelevant, considering it's the bakers that "took down" Hostess.

That, and the Bloombergs of the world deciding what you could and could not eat.

WTF does that have to do with it? You're just dumping random facts and anecdotes into your ideological blender and pouring out goop.
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"Umm... the Teamsters settled. The bakers' struck. The bakers have nothing to do with trucks."

Same silly work rules ...that might have actually had merit in 1940, but not today.

Just like the railroads had to fight for 50 year to get cabooses and the crews in cabooses eliminated.......


LIkely, bakers who made bread couldn't make 'cake' and vice versa and the same union 'work rules' and 'classification' stupidity.



t.
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"The Twinkies bankruptcy is a classic example of costs created by labor unions that are not confined to paychecks."

Yet again you are ignoring a lot of evidence that is contrary to your worldview. Perhaps you might want to be more open minded. You might then be accepted elsewhere outside of this board.

Just sayin.

Umm


And if you started to support your assertions with facts and reasoning, you would no longer be accepted elsewhere outside of this board.
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the unions insisted...that trucks run half empty



This is another lie.
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this post must have hit the 'best of'....

guess who shows up?


FNMH: "This is another lie. "


Well, FNMH..that's about the only four words in your vocabulary......


other than


LIAR LIAR LIAR...or He Lies!


t..
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JoshRandall wrote: Gimme my free stuff. This is the essence of the democrat party.


They're Gimmedats--er, I mean, Democrats.
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Quoted: the unions insisted...that trucks run half empty

FeedMeCrap responds: This is another lie.

FeedMeCrap is like a small child who hasn't learn yet how to communicate.
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The fact is, your statement was a lie. The unions have never insisted that trucks run half empty.
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FeedMeCrap:"The fact is, your statement was a lie."


You lie! You lie!


Liar



t.
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Ripplewood Holdings invested $150 million dollars in Hostess and lost it all.

Hostess paid out $150 million in health care benefits to its retirees last year, but over half the retirees had never worked for the current Hostess, thanks to the demands of the union that the employer pays for the pension plans of a bankrupt company on the shoulders of the surviving rival. (Remember that Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004.)

Union rules forced Hostess to run separate truck fleets for delivering breads vs. sweets. These routes were making the delivery charges (and salary costs) for their products much higher compared to the rivals of Hostess. Yet union officials blamed management for not meeting financial predictions. (Gee, I wonder why they couldn't meet their financial goals...)

Workers were asked to take an 8% pay cut and pay for 17% of their health care premiums. In return, they would get to own 25% of Hostess, plus $100 million of the debt would be paid back to the unions.

To anyone who proudly supports the Bakers Union: If you owned a business, would you want all your employees to be members of the Bakers Union? Think long and hard before truthfully answering that. Oh, I forgot...everything FeedMeCrap writes is a lie.
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All you have to do is post a link showing in writing that the unions demanded that trucks run half empty.



Failure to do that is proof that you posted another falsehood.
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"The fact is, your statement was a lie."
--------

You lie! You lie!





I can't help it if conservatives are incapable of posting the truth.
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Failure to do that is proof that you posted another falsehood. - FMNH

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That's a lie!
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I can't help it if conservatives are incapable of posting the truth. - FMNH

--------------------

That's a lie!
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FeedMeCrap wrote: All you have to do is post a link showing in writing that the unions demanded that trucks run half empty.

Union rules forced Hostess to run separate truck fleets for delivering bread vs. sweets. A sweets driver, serving a 7-11 store, was forbidden from restocking shelves with breads already delivered and waiting in the back. He had to call for a bread driver to swing by and handle.
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FeedMeCrap, every single post of yours is a lie. Every. Single. Post.
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FeedMeCrap, every single post of yours is a lie. Every. Single. Post.
______________________________

Just out of curiosity, I stopped reading its' stuff a while ago

Why does anyone read the posts of a petulant pre-K savant who has the gift to type sentences?

Sure it is amazing for a little while, my God a 4 year old who can write. But at some point it gets a little tiresome and you notice the content is age appropriate and it is really just a supermarket style tantrum. OR at least so it appears from what folks include in their quotes.
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It's funny how all you hear from the right wing is about how much trouble the unions were/are.

Mostly ideology-driven, I reckon.

culcha
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It's funny how all you hear from the right wing is about how much trouble the unions were/are.

Mostly ideology-driven, I reckon.

culcha


Do you deny that the union rules were costly? Or do you deny that the rules existed?
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For every union anecdote you conjure up (and another poster somewhere already debunked the Twinkie one, so you should probably drop that one), I can come up with an ENRON, or a Worldcom, or a Tyco. Corporate management malfeasance, greed, and corruption has killed many businesses, and cost lots of people some serious fortunes.

For all the excesses unions may (or may not) be guilty of, without them laborers are at the mercy of their corporate masters. Some companies are reasonable (like the one I work for), and some are extremely callous towards their workers.

1poorguy
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For all the excesses unions may (or may not) be guilty of, without them laborers are at the mercy of their corporate masters. Some companies are reasonable (like the one I work for), and some are extremely callous towards their workers.

1poorguy


That is complete and utter nonsense. Competition in the labor market among employers protects employees from their "corporate masters" *far* better than unions.
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For all the excesses unions may (or may not) be guilty of, without them laborers are at the mercy of their corporate masters. Some companies are reasonable (like the one I work for), and some are extremely callous towards their workers.

Maybe in an Upton Sinclair-era meat packing plant, but not today.

Workers have mobility. They're not tied to the city/town/county/state they were born in. They can move to places that maximize their skills.

This leads, what, you might ask? A mobile and agile workforce. It also leads to competition among firms to offer attractive wage and benefit packages to attract and retain the best talent.

BTW. The second scariest part of the housing crisis was that it disrupted this dynamic. Can you figure out why?
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All you have to do is post a link showing in writing that the unions demanded that trucks run half empty.
---------
Union rules forced Hostess to run separate truck fleets for delivering bread vs. sweets.




Still waiting for a link showing in writing that the unions demanded that trucks run half empty.
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Feedme, every single post of yours is the absolute truth. Every. Single. Post.


You've got that right, CathCoy. Maybe someday you'll post something truthful. But I doubt it.



Still waiting for written proof that the unions forced trucks to run half empty.
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Do you deny that the union rules were costly?



Union rules were trivial compared to bad management and the fact that nobody eats Wonder Bread anymore.


Raise your cyber hand if you eat it.


Anyone?


Didn't think so.
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Competition in the labor market among employers protects employees from their "corporate masters" *far* better than unions.




Too bad you can't show any historical evidence of that.
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Workers have mobility. They're not tied to the city/town/county/state they were born in.



This is a lie, of course. Half of all marriages end in divorce, and custody arrangements often prevent parents from moving out of state.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732435200457813...

Under the latest turnaround plan, the sticking point was Hostess's distribution operations, source of the Hostess horror stories filling the media. Union-imposed work rules stopped drivers from helping to load their trucks. A separate worker, arriving at the store in a separate vehicle, had to be employed to shift goods from a storage area to a retailer's shelf. Wonder Bread and Twinkies couldn't ride on the same truck.

Hostess has spent eight of the past 11 years in bankruptcy. As the company explained to its latest judge, the Hostess brands "have not been able to profit from many of their existing delivery stops and have been unable to enter potentially profitable markets, such as dollar stores, vending services and movie theaters."

If Hostess were able to rationalize or outsource delivery to serve these customers, ready to go are "new products based on its best-selling cake items that have a longer shelf-life and can withstand freezing en route to customers over longer transportation hauls."
----------------------------------------------------------
Insanity's horse adorns the sky. The unions take down a company with over 2 billion in sales last year.
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Competition in the labor market among employers protects employees from their "corporate masters" *far* better than unions.

Talk about nonsense. Anyone who knows any US history at all knows that is complete BS. That's why unions arose, in fact, because they proved to be the only tool workers had.

There is essentially NO competition among employers, at least not at the blue-collar level (among white collar, there is some). Laborers are expendable. Easily replaced.
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Workers have mobility. They're not tied to the city/town/county/state they were born in. They can move to places that maximize their skills.

In principle, yes. In practice, not so much. For example, even I as a white-collar professional am limited because my industry is not everywhere. There are distinct locations where my skill-set might be usable (a bit in Phoenix, some in Austin, some in Oregon, etc). Most places, no. For blue-collar it is worse (not only because of location-specific jobs, but also because their skills are not usually difficult to replace so they have no negotiating power at all).

Certainly I agree that people are more mobile, often (even perhaps usually) leaving the places of their birth. But once a career is established it is not usually trivial to change it. I could, but I'd have to "start over" and give up my nearly 20 yrs of industry experience. Some people do it, but it's not trivial.

Perhaps you are thinking in terms of jobs like accounting. While each industry has its own wrinkles, standard accounting practices are, well, standard. One can more easily go from a tech firm to a bank to an automaker. A semiconductor engineer, or a miner, or an autoworker has fewer options.

The housing crisis is tangential, but clearly if nobody is issuing loans then you can neither sell your existing home nor buy a new one somewhere else.
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The housing crisis is tangential, but clearly if nobody is issuing loans then you can neither sell your existing home nor buy a new one somewhere else.
_________________

They are tripping over themselves for well qualified buyers.

I had them knocking my door down two years ago when I was going for a mortgage.
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They are tripping over themselves for well qualified buyers.

I had them knocking my door down two years ago when I was going for a mortgage.
________________

Oooops sorry, wife saw post it was 7 months ago
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1poorguy:" For example, even I as a white-collar professional am limited because my industry is not everywhere."

That was your choice to go into that industry. Right? And in many cases, jobs change and you need to change. We don't need too many DOS programmers or Pascal programmers these days. Or even ADA. If your job skills don't improve or you don't learn current technology, you limit your horizons.

------


1poorguy: " There are distinct locations where my skill-set might be usable (a bit in Phoenix, some in Austin, some in Oregon, etc)."

That's better than none.

-------



"For blue-collar it is worse (not only because of location-specific jobs, but also because their skills are not usually difficult to replace so they have no negotiating power at all)."

Really? Talk to a lot of employers. It's hard to find reliable, hard working folks for lots of jobs. There are lots who sort of show up for work, but don't want to really work but just sit around all day and collect a paycheck.

------



1poorguy:"Certainly I agree that people are more mobile, often (even perhaps usually) leaving the places of their birth. "

LOts go off to college and say goodbye to their home town. I grew up in NNJ...went to college in upstate NY.....went looking for a job in NJ as well as elsewhere. The best job was in IL. The second best was in the Boston suburbs. The lowest paid offer was in NJ. The reason folks said NJ was low paying was 'folks who were there didn't want to move out and thus labor was 'cheaper'. I took the higher paying job doing what I wanted to do in IL.

3 years later, got caught in company downsizing. With 3 years experience under my belt had 11 job offers in 60 days. I had rented for 3 years so no hassle moving.

13 years later, moved again. had a house but new employer guaranteed sale of house, helped me buy new place....



------




1poorguy:"But once a career is established it is not usually trivial to change it."

I went through many changes in 'my job'. Started as a design engineer doing circuit design. Moved later into system engineering work....then as cellular radio developed, into that field.

Later got involved with projects on everything from fiber optic systems, undersea cable systems, satellite communications, new "PCS" radio systems and every type of radio system you could imagine. All it took was applying basic communications engineering to new developments and learning quickly the new technology.

Oh...and got a Master's Degree along the way.

You've got to keep improving your job skills....otherwise, you find you are the world's best buggy whip designer and unemployable.

------



1poorguy:" I could, but I'd have to "start over" and give up my nearly 20 yrs of industry experience. Some people do it, but it's not trivial."

or morph your job skills into a new field.

--------



1poorguy: "Perhaps you are thinking in terms of jobs like accounting. While each industry has its own wrinkles, standard accounting practices are, well, standard."

I'd bet the computer software, and keeping up with all the rules keep you on your toes.

But in engineering, you have to keep current and upgrade skills. So? That's the 21st century. Welcome to it.
------





1poorguy: " A semiconductor engineer, or a miner, or an autoworker has fewer options."

Maybe so. Then again, I'm sure your semiconductor engineer might be able to morph into many other areas. Mining? Heck, the Bakken and other oil/ng needs a zillion workers. High paid workers.

Factory workers? Same problem for the last 60 years. Automation replaces assembly line workers. What else is new?


--------

While you might not 'want' to relocate, you might have to.

I've got friends who were laid off during the telecom bust 10 years ago. Many 'morphed' into other careers. Some took jobs overseas for a few years to keep the paychecks coming. Some started their own businesses.

Even in good times, businesses change. Products change.

25 years ago, I took an economics course - and one of the subjects the prof covered was 'the contingent work force'. His prediction and the material he provided basically showed that in the future, that much of the work would be done piece meal. You had a project, it would be farmed out. You'd have one 'expert' on a 'as needed basis' do one part. Another person would be hired on a contract basis for another part. Companies would have few 'permanent workers' and lots of people hired 'for the job at hand' - whether designing a new IC chip, or a new package for Twinkies, or whatever.

Employees would work on a hourly/weekly basis for the duration of the project and then line up the next one, etc. Like the 'job shop' in the contracting business, but extended wide and far.

There wouldn't be big marketing departments, sales departments, accounting departments, etc....everything would be 'farmed out'....same for engineering and design work......and not to other companies but to individual contractors.



t.
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In principle, yes. In practice, not so much. For example, even I as a white-collar professional am limited because my industry is not everywhere. There are distinct locations where my skill-set might be usable (a bit in Phoenix, some in Austin, some in Oregon, etc). Most places, no. For blue-collar it is worse (not only because of location-specific jobs, but also because their skills are not usually difficult to replace so they have no negotiating power at all).

But you're not limited to 1 town and 1 company, as it used to be. As a highly trained worker it's also vastly easier in this day and age to hop industries -or- go out on your own.

The point? Today's workers aren't as dependent on The Man as they used to be.

Certainly I agree that people are more mobile, often (even perhaps usually) leaving the places of their birth. But once a career is established it is not usually trivial to change it. I could, but I'd have to "start over" and give up my nearly 20 yrs of industry experience. Some people do it, but it's not trivial.

Of course it isn't. But if things got desperate for you in your field you'd certainly entertain that option, wouldn't you? Of course you would. And in this day and age you could do it.

Perhaps you are thinking in terms of jobs like accounting. While each industry has its own wrinkles, standard accounting practices are, well, standard. One can more easily go from a tech firm to a bank to an automaker. A semiconductor engineer, or a miner, or an autoworker has fewer options.

Oh, no. I was thinking about engineering. I don't know where you work, but I'm in semis. I can hop to any number of other companies because of where my strengths are. Where people screw themsevles over is that they *think* they can't adapt.

The housing crisis is tangential, but clearly if nobody is issuing loans then you can neither sell your existing home nor buy a new one somewhere else.

Actually, it's not tangential. If you're tied to a house you can't pay for and can't sell, you can't very well move to a new job. The housing crisis hit workforce mobility in the US pretty hard, which meant that even as companies posted openings they weren't able to fill them.
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... without them laborers are at the mercy of their corporate masters.

Funny, but I don't recall seeing anyone chained to a plantation recently.

JLC
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"Certainly I agree that people are more mobile, often (even perhaps usually) leaving the places of their birth. But once a career is established it is not usually trivial to change it. I could, but I'd have to "start over" and give up my nearly 20 yrs of industry experience. Some people do it, but it's not trivial."


So? ANd some people change and make more money and advance more. That's your call.

-----




"Oh, no. I was thinking about engineering. "

Heck, in Telecom Corridor for at least 10 years, companies were poaching each others employees. Folks would be jumping jobs for annual 10 or 20% increases in pay. Employers were desperate to find bodies to fill openings. They'd pay moving expenses.

That lasted to 2000 when telecom melted down, but a lot of folks made a lot of money, and most are still 'in the industry' somewhere. Many had to move.

--------

For those who couldn't sell houses, many rented their current house and moved elsewhere till they could sell their house.

------






"If you're tied to a house you can't pay for and can't sell, you can't very well move to a new job."

You can always sell..you might lose money, you might do a short sale....but if the economics of the new job are better, you might.

You might lease it too....rent it out.

------


" The housing crisis hit workforce mobility in the US pretty hard, which meant that even as companies posted openings they weren't able to fill them."

Houses in WAsh DC are actually up and stayed pretty high. Depends on the area. Yeah, Miami and PHoenix got overbuilt, but just like stocks, you don't buy at insane multiples..or at prices the next sucker can't afford to buy..and expect to get out unscathed.

Too many believed in the greater fool theory.

If the economy gets going again and interest rates kick up, housing prices will drop another 20% over the next 10 years.


t.
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Oh, no. I was thinking about engineering. I don't know where you work, but I'm in semis.

Me too. Started in reliability, moved to failure analysis, then to yield enhancement (but they want me for my failure analysis skills...they just call it "low yield analysis", but it's the same thing).

There are a few companies I could move to if I really wanted. But the field isn't really that big. It depends greatly on how they do things (i.e. I'm pretty good at figuring out what defect is present in a CMOS IC through physical analysis...companies that do it all through test wouldn't want me; companies that don't have FA labs wouldn't want me). I suspect if I wanted to move I'd have to plan on going back to school (which I could do). Nineteen years in the same company has focused by skill set in specific ways relevant to the company. I'm not complaining, it's just the way it is.

I agree with you in general terms. People aren't born, living their lives, and dying within a 50 mile radius anymore. Kids from Podunk, USA, go to school in the "big city" (or completely different states), and can end up just about anywhere after that.

The housing crisis hit workforce mobility in the US pretty hard, which meant that even as companies posted openings they weren't able to fill them.

I wasn't aware of that with my employer, but perhaps. We tend to run lean because our CEO hates layoffs (it's a pain to get qualified people retrained after the down-turn is over; better to just keep them instead). I do know one person who simply walked away from his home. I know at least two others who short-sold. And I know another who snagged a home that had been short-sold. I know, small sample size.
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Funny, but I don't recall seeing anyone chained to a plantation recently.

Thanks, in part, to unions. They were instrumental in eliminating child labor, "homework" (particularly popular in the garment industry, as I recall), forced overtime, etc. You can easily point out union abuses, and I likely would agree with you about many of them. But they are the only tool workers have versus management. We always hope such is not necessary, but sometimes it is.**

Your comment is sort of like people who say "who needs immunizations, nobody gets sick from those diseases anymore". Yeah...because everyone has been immunized for the past several decades.


**My father used to work for a mobile home manufacturer, before I was born. They took such good care of their workers that when union reps would show up to try to organize the workers they would be escorted from the premises by those same workers. Or so he told me. THAT is the ideal, but it doesn't happen very often.
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Union rules were trivial compared to bad management and the fact that nobody eats Wonder Bread anymore. - FMNH

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That's a lie!
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Union rules were trivial compared to bad management and the fact that nobody eats Wonder Bread anymore. - FMNH

-----------------

That's a lie!




Nobody with taste buds, that's for sure. But feel free to prove me wrong. Raise your cyber hand if you eat Wonder Bread.
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Nobody with taste buds, that's for sure. But feel free to prove me wrong. Raise your cyber hand if you eat Wonder Bread.
-----------------------------------------------
They did over 2 billion in sales last year, someone eats Wonder Bread.
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That's a li... oops that's fact! Feed me nausea is wrong again
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They did over 2 billion in sales last year, someone eats Wonder Bread.



Obviously nobody on this board, which proves my point. Their products aren't selling the way they used to, which is management's fault, not the unions.
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Raise your cyber hand if you eat Wonder Bread.



Still waiting.
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They did over 2 billion in sales last year, someone eats Wonder Bread.

_________

Obviously nobody on this board, which proves my point. Their products aren't selling the way they used to, which is management's fault, not the unions.




Well, if you had asked the same question 30 years ago on this board about Wonder Bread consumption, you still wouldn't have gotten any hands raised.

Case closed.
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FeedMeCrap wrote: Their products aren't selling the way they used to, which is management's fault, not the unions.

Man, that bakers union really shot themselves in the foot, didn't they? No Christmas for untold union kiddies.
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FNMH " Nobody with taste buds, that's for sure."



That's a lie!



t.
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Man, that bakers union really shot themselves in the foot, didn't they? No Christmas for untold union kiddies.

What is pathetic is that it isn't just the few hundred in this union, but that they have directly caused unemployment for 18,000 others (many union members).
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But once a career is established it is not usually trivial to change it.

I don't know what field you work in, but my job today does not resemble my job 20 years ago. Change isn't trivial, but it is a requirement.
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Union rules were trivial compared to bad management and the fact that nobody eats Wonder Bread anymore.

Raise your cyber hand if you eat it.

Anyone?

Didn't think so.



Well, FMNH's got me there. I haven't eaten Wonder Bread in perhaps 30 years.
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andrew wrote: Well, FMNH's got me there. I haven't eaten Wonder Bread in perhaps 30 years.

That's right...Wonder Bread is a children's staple. Kids won't eat adult bread. There are still millions of children in the world--FeedMeCrap reasons as one of them--who still eat Wonder Bread.

Be that as it may, to say that ADULTS don't eat Wonder Bread is saying nothing at all.
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" I haven't eaten Wonder Bread in perhaps 30 years. "


We have Ms Baird's bread in Dallas...that has a big chunk of the market.

Local baker.

Good bread....

Plus the Walmart carries 50 kinds of bread...... somedays it's hard to decide what to buy, but I don't eat a lot of bread and wind up with the 99c walmart loaves that last for 2 weeks before going bad. m aybe 3 weeks.


t.
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Plus the Walmart carries 50 kinds of bread...... somedays it's hard to decide what to buy, but I don't eat a lot of bread and wind up with the 99c walmart loaves that last for 2 weeks before going bad. m aybe 3 weeks.


t.


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I don't eat bread very often anymore. But I like to have it around for when I get the urge for a sandwich. I find that freezing bread works just fine. Even frozen, it is pretty easy to break off 2 or 4 slices for a sandwich or two. The frozen part goes right back in the freezer. The slices take 20 minutes or so to thaw once you separate them and they are moist and fluffy just like fresh. Easy Peasy.
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someone told me about Whole Foods Cranberry Walnut bread, that she gives it as gifts.....you have to call before going to make sure they have it.
I don't eat bread because it's a binge food.

here's a recipe:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/recipe/cranberry-nut-bread
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Even frozen, it is pretty easy to break off 2 or 4 slices for a sandwich or two. The frozen part goes right back in the freezer. The slices take 20 minutes or so to thaw

Modern toasters have a setting for frozen bread. If you don't want it toasted, you can still defrost it that way in just a minute or two. And there's the added benefit that not having to wait for your bread will make it less likely that you pour another cup of Folgers.

--fleg
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Modern toasters have a setting for frozen bread. If you don't want it toasted, you can still defrost it that way in just a minute or two. And there's the added benefit that not having to wait for your bread will make it less likely that you pour another cup of Folgers.

--fleg


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Have a rec for the Folgers dig. You would be proud to know that I purchased some high end foo foo coffee at my last trip to Sam's. First time ever. I thought about you more than once as I contemplated dropping $20 on two pounds of snooty coffee when 39 oz of delicious Folgers was right beside for a mere $9. Anyway I took the plunge and now have it secured in my safe along with other valuables. When I decide to break some out, I better get enough of that special civet ass taste to justify such extravagance. We'll see!
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Have a rec for the Folgers dig. You would be proud to know that I purchased some high end foo foo coffee at my last trip to Sam's. First time ever. I thought about you more than once as I contemplated dropping $20 on two pounds of snooty coffee when 39 oz of delicious Folgers was right beside for a mere $9. Anyway I took the plunge and now have it secured in my safe along with other valuables. When I decide to break some out, I better get enough of that special civet ass taste to justify such extravagance. We'll see!
-----------------

This is the same fleg that thinks 2 buck chuck taste good. I'd rather have Folgers.

arrete
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I contemplated dropping $20 on two pounds of snooty coffee when 39 oz of delicious Folgers was right beside for a mere $9. Anyway I took the plunge and now have it secured in my safe along with other valuables. When I decide to break some out, I better get enough of that special civet ass taste to justify such extravagance. We'll see!

Don't throw away your old coffee, even though you'll want to after tasting the new stuff. It can be recycled through this class at Portland Community College:

Coffee Painting

http://www.pcc.edu/schedule/default.cfm?fa=dspCourse2&th...

Learn a fun and different way to draw street scenes, landscapes, seascapes, portraits, people and more!

Using paper, pencil and instant coffee you can create a unique painting.

Willow Creek Center 209 03:00 PM-04:50 PM W 16-Jan-2013 thru 06-Mar-2013
Instructor: Bill C Wild
_____________________

You can't go wrong with a coffee painting class taught by Wild, Bill.

--fleg
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This is the same fleg that thinks 2 buck chuck taste good.

Wrong on so many levels.

1) Two Buck Chuck costs three bucks in Oregon.
2) I haven't had any in years, maybe six or seven.
3) Its purpose wasn't to taste good but to provide a cheap buzz. If you tell me that you drink Folgers only for a cheap caffeine high, I'll understand while pointing out that the better stuff is stronger so you don't have to use as much.

--fleg
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If you tell me that you drink Folgers only for a cheap caffeine high, I'll understand while pointing out that the better stuff is stronger so you don't have to use as much.
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Alas, I can't drink coffee at all - well, I have one cup a week at Panera if you want to call that coffe. Their tea is vile.

arrete - sipping Golden Monkey tea
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I thought about you more than once as I contemplated dropping $20 on two pounds of snooty coffee when 39 oz of delicious Folgers was right beside for a mere $9.

We got generic coffee in our last big purchase. The taste was OK, but that stuff was WEAK! We needed to use 2x the amount in the coffee maker for the same strength. I don't think we saved money using generic.

We went back to Folgers/Maxwell House for a day-to-day coffee use. We do get extra special coffee for extra special events though.
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We went back to Folgers/Maxwell House for a day-to-day coffee use. We do get extra special coffee for extra special events though.
______________________________________

We do the same, we found we really enjoy Trader Joe's more than the rest. Typically we went with either Dunkin Donuts had been our previous with Eight O'clock close behind.

For my day to day, I just flat out enjoy the 'standard' coffees more. Though I do enjoy the taste of the other coffees as a different taste, rather than a upscale ones.
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