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hi i'm new to this board , but all the other boards i use are very helpful so i was wondering if i could get some input on this product.

http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com/info/cost.php

thank u
stocnut
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Hey stocnut, welcome to the Cars n Drivers board.

I hate to say it, but everyone I've heard talk about the Tornado says the same thing; it does jack squat. Now these are guys that are into their cars. They notice the cigarette butt they just drove over. When diehards say they've tried something and it didn't do what it says, take it as gospel. Spend the $65 on routine maintenance and you'll see more benefit.

- Sco
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scotaku
this is what i'm talking about, the motley fool discussion board has the most helpful people in the world. i tell u what for 4 dollars a month i learn 20 times the cost from this and other boards. i mean look u a perfect stranger just saved me a year and a half of a motley fool subscription. how many people probably blew there money (like i was about to) on this product because they did not not have a reliable source to go to for a valid opinion.so once again with feeling......
thank you scataku for your help


stocnut
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Thanks for the kind words, stocnut! But to keep it all in perspective, there are still a few Aztec drivers around here <cough> ;-)

A lot of infomercial aftermarket parts and products are notable only for not doing any harm, while others are downright dangerous to use. It's a transient consumer market, since people who really care about their cars quickly learn what to buy and what to do to maximize performance and longevity, and those that don't care don't buy their products anyway.

Twit
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"<cough> ;-)"

==========||==========

A virtual Hall's Mentholyptus for Twit on a lazy Friday afternoon.
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A virtual Hall's Mentholyptus for Twit on a lazy Friday afternoon.

Thanks GB! Got any codine? (for medicinal purposes, of course.)

Twit
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::::sigh::::

Don't tell my sponsor, please.

Twit
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For the cost of that tin plated piece of tin foil (no it's not really made of tin foil...) I would rather buy a K&N Air Filter and put Synthetic Oil into any vehicle I have owned.

I know from years of experience that these two backyard upgrades do work to improve the horsepower and performance of any vehicle that I have bought them for, ranging from a 74 Malibu with a 454 and a TH400 to a 87 Mustang LX 5.0 5 speed.


docrobot
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Well, ain't that just great. I bought the Tornado last week and I'm having it installed in my Yukon Denali on Monday and you all say I shouldna.

So, okay, I might as well try it. After all, my knowledge of the Bernoulli effect of low and high pressure areas coupled with a thorough understanding of Coanda says that any air mass traveling undisturbed has a tendency to increase its pressure when constricted yet does not when it is turbulent especially when this turbulence is rotary and at a parallel plane to the constriction.

I can talk myself into anything.

But come Monday I bet there's a mechanic who's going to giggle.

Oh, heck with it. I'm going back to The Jester Board where I am also laughed at.

MichaelR –Jester


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Oh, heck with it. I'm going back to The Jester Board where I am also laughed at.
===*===

It's ok, Michael, come toward the light, that's right walk...toward...the...light.
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Oh, heck with it. I'm going back to The Jester Board where I am also laughed at.
===*===

It's ok, Michael, come toward the light, that's right walk...toward...the...light.

Raggmopp


If you're referring to that cheesy 20-watt bulb over the doorway at The Jester Board I ain't going. The light I really want to go to is that shining from Muffy's (The Jester Board's slut) eyes.

But since this is about cars, let's stay on subject: driver training. I learned to drive later than most. I was 25. I took a driver training course and one of my fellow students had a friend of a friend at Mospost race track in Ontario. Using this linkage I took the course which taught how to go around a corner fast, nothing else. Detuned cars. Stick shift. Lots of classroom stuff. Result? Going around a corner can be real fun and hairy.

At this course at Mosport two of my fellow classmates were officers in the Ontario Provincial Police. They said that their next was to take the OPP Pursuit Drivers course and they would try wiggle me in somehow. They snuck me in. So, for three days, I was Constable Michael Read and what they taught was how to change a lane fast. Fords. Automatics. Tight suspension. Three lanes and you drove down the center and had to flick into the left or right lane and not hit pylons. This was also fun but a lot more hairy.

One of the instructors said that I would benefit by taking the skid school run by a crazy Dutchman in Brampton, Ontario. This is a pad of polished concrete covered by a skin of water and the cars had bald tires and the instructor could lock one side of the car's brakes. You do a 360 in .5 seconds. Hairy is not an adequate description. It's not that it's fast but that it's faster than you can, in the beginning, comprehend. One second you're going this way and the next you're going in the same direction but there's been this revolution.

My point. I now drive a Yukon Denali. Lots of power (I bought it to trailer my boat) and there I am toodling along at about the speed limit, tucked in the right-hand lane, several car lengths behind the car in front and haven't ever had a ticket in 38 years of driving.

However, even though my wife says I drive too slowly, for some reason we always get to where we want sooner than others. And it isn't hairy.

MichaelR – Jester


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After all, my knowledge of the Bernoulli effect of low and high pressure areas coupled with a thorough understanding of Coanda says that any air mass traveling undisturbed has a tendency to increase its pressure when constricted yet does not when it is turbulent especially when this turbulence is rotary and at a parallel plane to the constriction.

All that physics makes my head spin. But shortly after the air gets passed the Tornado, it's going to get constricted big time when the piston comes up and smacks it up da side of da head.

Anyway, now you have the opportunity to be our test subject. Please keep detailed records, including what you ate for breakfast, and the ambiant temperature of the road surface, etc. A short sound byte of the mechanic laughing would be nice, too ;-)

Twit - Honorary Jester

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A short sound byte of the mechanic laughing would be nice, too.
===*===

Rumor has it that Mr. Read owns a 1963 Split-Window Corvette equipped with a Fish Carbureator that allows it to get 60 miles per gallon. We also believe there is gambling going on at Rick's.

One of the Usual Suspects.
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Three lanes and you drove down the center and had to flick into the left or right lane and not hit pylons. This was also fun but a lot more hairy.

This sounds like something I had to do after I got a few too many tickets as a teenager. In Orange County they used to have something called the Fresh Start program. It was for people who had already used up their 1 or 2 trips to traffic school allowed within a certain amount of time. You had to request this program from the judge, and it wasn't cheap, but if you were allowed to go and successfully completed the program then the ticket didn't show up on your record.

I must admit that I probably had more fun in Fresh Start than I should have, considering it was a punishment. It was just like traffic school half of the time, but the other half was behind the wheel training. One of the tests was to drive full speed down the middle of 3 lanes, with a red traffic light above all 3 lanes. When you passed a certain point, the lights over one of the outer lanes would turn green. Your task was to successfully swerve into the lane with the green light without wiping out all the cones that made up the lanes. It wasn't really that hard (the cars were old Datsuns with automatic tranies) but I'd say 1/3 of the people would just guess and end up choosing the wrong lane, 1/3 would go towards the proper lane but wipe out all the cones (or spin out completely), and 1/3 did it successfully. Thankfully I was part of the latter 1/3.

There were other tests too...parallel parking, the usual winding track without knocking over cones, backing up in a straight line, etc. It wasn't exactly the way I wanted to spend 2 weekends but it didn't feel much like punishment. Unfortunately I think the court decided that graduating from Fresh Start didn't correlate to fewer tickets so they did away with the program. Too bad.

Wot
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All that physics makes my head spin. But shortly after the air gets passed the Tornado, it's going to get constricted big time when the piston comes up and smacks it up da side of da head.

Anyway, now you have the opportunity to be our test subject. Please keep detailed records, including what you ate for breakfast, and the ambient temperature of the road surface, etc. A short sound byte of the mechanic laughing would be nice, too ;-)

Twit - Honorary Jester


Yeah, but da air dat get in can be thin air and don't whack so good. Badda-bing! Dat's de reason fur tuned intake ports, don't ya know. Same as getting rid of the dead exhaust: tuned pipes –straight into the East River. Dat Tornado thingy theoretically should woik 'cause it aid in laminar flow.

Sorry for the above. I just bought the first two years of The Sopranos on DVD and Elly and I have been staying up late.

But I will keep records.

MichaelR – Jester


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Unfortunately I think the court decided that graduating from Fresh Start didn't correlate to fewer tickets so they did away with the program. Too bad.

It probably didn't, but fewer tickets is the wrong goal: saving lives should be the goal. The safetycrats have a very strong bias against car control training, claiming that teaching teenagers how to use all of a car's capabilities will make them more likely to drive irresponsibly. This is just the sort of idiotic "deciding what's best for other people" that drives me nuts.

Having been a teenage driver, I can tell you that human nature guarantees some overexuberance at the wheel. I'd much prefer such folks to be familiar with what is and is not possible when the critical moment inevitably arrives.

Ever driven in England or Germany? It is immediately obvious that the average driver there is FAR more competent than the average American driver. Basic concepts such as situational awareness and lane discipline are conspicuous by their absence here. This illustrates the manifest failure of American style driver's education. I feel much safer on the race track than on the street because of that.

Driving in Italy, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother thing. :-)

He doesn't know it yet, but my 4 month old son is going to get a REAL driver's education!

Neil
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Wot:

Street racing in Vancouver has taken about seven lives in the past month or so and now the police will, if it's obvious you're racing, take your license and give you a two year suspension on the spot. Almost all have been teens driving on their provisional license.

I think kids should do as you had to and that's learn exactly what happens when you don't know what you're in for. The objection is that some kids will drive faster because they think they know how to avoid an accident but I dispute that since the training for any driving improvement – especially from the advanced schools – teaches maneuverability at specific speeds: that at some speeds you can't do what you would like to.

What I would like teens to learn is how different cars and vans handle. My wife has a 2001 Passat and I have a GMC Yukon Denali and that's chalk and cheese in the same garage. Previously, for 13 years, I had a GMC 2500 Van with all mod con. I had to learn to drive the Denali because its characteristics are different than any car (and I've rented a lot) than before. It's more a truck than the Passat and the Passat is, with the six, a peppy car that comes out of the hole Real Zippy.

I'd like teens to know what it's like in a Corvette and and Crown Vic and understand the differences.

Whatever, the police are cracking down real hard on racing.

MichaelR – Jester


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I fully agree that driver's training here is pretty much a joke. I think that getting a driver's license is too easy in general. The driving test only superficially tests the most basic understanding of traffic laws and automobile operating proficiancy.

One of the most memorable demonstrations I took away from my Fresh Start experience was the concept of human reaction time. Referring back to the test where you had a split second to decide whether to swerve into the left or right lane, we were all shown where the sensor was that caused one of the lights to turn green. I don't recall exactly, but I think the sensor was about 100 yards before the location of the lights. When you're standing still looking at the situation, it looks like there's more than enough distance to make your decision. The instructors assured us that even though the light changes instantly when the car reaches the sensor, we'll swear after the fact that the light doesn't change until we're almost directly under it. This was, of course, true. The car was going about 60mph when crossing the sensor. It takes a person a few milliseconds to prcoess the image of the light changing and make a decision. It definitely felt like a noticeable amount of time elapsed between reaching the sensor and seeing the green light, but when watching from the sideline it was obvious that the change was instantaneous.

These are all things that most people will agree are obvious but until actually going through a controlled experiment, I had no idea how much of a difference reaction time can make.

Wot
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I think kids should do as you had to and that's learn exactly what happens when you don't know what you're in for.
===*===

Kids?! I think knowing what will happen at 11/10ths should be mandatory for any YUTZ purchasing a 4WD anything. In the performance driving schools I've attended the emphasis has been to not get into trouble in the first place but if it finds you knowing what options are available. Thank you Mssrs Bondurant and Finnochiaro.

Raggmopp
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Street racing in Vancouver has taken about seven lives in the past month or so and now the police will, if it's obvious you're racing, take your license and give you a two year suspension on the spot. Almost all have been teens driving on their provisional license.


The sad thing about teenagers is that young driver after young driver dies while street racing in a single month, and they continue to do it thinking "it won't happen to me." Sadly, at that young age ego, and false brovado rule over brains and common sense.

Words to the wise; thinking you are invinsible, and indestructable don't make it so.

docrobot


P.S. Is the BC media mentioning these deaths so the other kids know how dangerous this is?
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Words to the wise; thinking you are invincible and indestructible don't make it so.

docrobot

P.S. Is the BC media mentioning these deaths so the other kids know how dangerous this is?


Plastered over all the front pages and has been for several weeks before the latest where two kids raced and one slammed into a hydro pole severing the Lexus (parents car) into parts. No survivors. Then, doc, there's stuff in the media about that since these kids killed themselves and how it's necessary for grief counseling at their schools. My God, grief counseling?

If I had my way and I could be wrong and if you disagree I'll take my lumps but I'd haul that wreck on a flatbed right into the school parking lot and say, “This may bruise your yet-mature psyches but this is what happens.” I wouldn't clean up the car for their precious sensibilities. It would be as the cops found it with bloodstains and empty shoes.

But what really happens? Some educators say that we must protect our children from the realities of life before they're able to accept them. My view is that if you're old enough to get pregnant you should know how not to and, if you're old enough to kill yourself in an automobile, you should learn how not to.

What galls is that there's some parents who have lost a kid and they're wondering why their kid. Well, you gave an inexperienced driver a powerful auto and you let him drive at times when others want to race. It's such a terrible waste.

MichaelR – Jester


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“This may bruise your yet-mature psyches but this is what happens.”
===*===

A couple of twelve hour shifts in the ER would be very instructional as well.
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What galls is that there's some parents who have lost a kid and they're wondering why their kid. Well, you gave an inexperienced driver a powerful auto and you let him drive at times when others want to race. It's such a terrible waste.
===*===

That's because the parents have the attitude "It can't happen to MY kid" not taking into account that while Mother Nature is impartial she is also terribly strict. If your choice is breaking the laws of God or Nature choose God, at least He'll forgive you.
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Yeah, but da air dat get in can be thin air and don't whack so good. Badda-bing! Dat's de reason fur tuned intake ports, don't ya know. Same as getting rid of the dead exhaust: tuned pipes –straight into the East River.

Uh, yeah dem git tuned if ya have to cram all the air possible thru dem, but yer not talking about takin dis iron racin', iz ya? Seems like if Mr. Motor is gettin all the wheezin he needs already, a tempest in der teacup ain't gonna be notable.

Twit
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I had the Tornado installed and the mechanic, being polite, didn't laugh but did say that if it were such a good idea GM would have already installed it which, to my mind, isn't a valid argument.

Point: do aftermarket add-ons work? In the early 80s I had a computer added to my GMC Van that measured the density of the charge at TDC and varied the spark accordingly. Mileage went up to 19 mpg, up from 16, and the engine ran that much smoother. Also, I found that at oil change the oil was cleaner.

I sold the van when I came out west and I lost track of the company that made this. If anyone knows of a similar I would be on it like a shot even though I wonder if it would work with the newer ignitions and so on.

As for the Tornado I don't know because I just drove back about an hour ago and the drive was through residential streets; I'll take it on the highway tomorrow and see if there's any difference. Like Twit I work out of my house (I've been doing this for more than 30 years) and I don't commute unless you count going downstairs.

On other matters and that's GPS. I have just bought the Garmin 176C. I bought it to replace the Garmin 48 I use on my boat because the 176C does have marine charts. Since I do have it for marine use I have installed the pre-programmed BlueChart Marine cartography chip. However, if set to land use, it does show all the routes across the BC lower mainland.

The 176C is expensive and the locale chips are also. If you're interested in GPS I would recommend the Garmin 76.

Points about buying a GPS: pixels cost (the more there are the more dollars you'll spend), color costs (256 colors costs way more than 16), get the accessory cable to plug into your car's cigarette lighter (GPS eats up batteries especially if you turn on the light for the screen) and the best place to learn about GPS is through your local Power and Sail Squadron. Garmin does provide a video (at extra cost) but you learn far more about establishing way points und so weiter from the boating people.

MichaelR – Jester


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Garmin does provide a video (at extra cost) but you learn far more about establishing way points und so weiter from the boating people.
===*===

Or, for about $12 U.S., you could get one of Mr. Mopp's Maps.

Mr. Mopp
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Point: do aftermarket add-ons work? In the early 80s I had a computer added to my GMC Van that measured the density of the charge at TDC and varied the spark accordingly. Mileage went up to 19 mpg, up from 16, and the engine ran that much smoother. Also, I found that at oil change the oil was cleaner.

Some do. Since in design and manufacturing, hundreds of variables are cooked down to arrive at a homogenous, bland, average capability over a broad range of conditions and demands, you can manipulate systems according to an end result you want to achieve.

I bought programmable computer chip because I wanted better performance. It adjusts the transmission fluid pressure for crisper shifting, and manipulates ignition timing during heavier power demand. It's a mild program currently, but I'm going to get it reprogrammed more agressively.

Twit
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