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No. of Recommendations: 13
Ben Carlson:
Is the Ford F-150 Partially Responsible For the Retirement Crisis?
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/09/is-the-ford-f-150-p...

I’m not saying people can’t have nice things. I don’t want to be that personal finance scold who constantly tells people all of the things they can’t spend money on.

But if you’re struggling financially, your vehicle is the perfect place to find some wiggle room since a more expensive car or truck isn’t going to make you any happier.


My neighbor bought a $50K Tesla - "Only 5 short years until I own it".
Hmm. Borrowing $50K to buy a depreciating asset is not my cup of tea, never was.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Is the Ford F-150 Partially Responsible For the Retirement Crisis?

And it’s not just the depreciating asset. Fuel, tires, and repairs are going to take a bigger bite out your monthly budget, too.

AW
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Our modern day economy appears to be built upon massive, cumulative consumption and debt propped up by infinitely growing money creation:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1

I don't have a clue as to how long this will continue/end.
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No. of Recommendations: 5
Fuel, tires, and repairs are going to take a bigger bite out your monthly budget, too.

Bigger than what ? At the current mileage, I am likely to be replacing tires due to age more than mileage.

I actually have two cars for one person and the extra one makes me smile every time I look at it and often I will chortle when I drive it. I own it and strangely enough, it is now an appreciating asset. But it really doesn't matter because it makes me happy.
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No. of Recommendations: 7
But it really doesn't matter because it makes me happy.

That's the crux of it for those of us with the wherewithal, isn't it? If it's not taking food off your plate or a roof over your head, why not enjoy the things that you happy?

Pete
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Also, what's the alternative. Driving and transportation are essential many places. A less expensive vehicle might work in many cases. But dependence on Uber or public transportation does not work for many.

In those situations when you can no longer drive, you are probably trapped. Time to move somewhere unless you can come up the services you need.

Transportation has to be part of your retirement planning.

If you've got it, why not flaunt it. (But not with borrowed money.)
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What's the alternative? Buy used, drive them longer, spend some of the money saved on payment to maintain them aggressively and preemptively.

How much longer and how deep a repair to bear varies. It's easier in a warmer state like SoCal where rust isn't an issue and if you're a gearhead. In a non-rust state, most vehicles are solid to 200K these days and resell well without any intense repairs, just staying on top of service.



My problem is having too many vehicles still. Still in the young adult children launch phase.

2002 Golf TDI (496K my daily driver with surf and bike racks. Finally swapped out engine and trans at 469K with Low mile salvage units)
2015 RAV4 (34K, Wife's daily driver: purchased early last year with 18K miles on it)

2002 Excursion (289K, purchased in 2004, currently camptrailer and construction trailer hauler, church bus)
2002 Civic (190K, in fine shape. holding for a daughter in recovery to re-launch into life/work)
v
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Lots of folks spend lots of money they don't have on 'toys'.

In TX, one out of every two vehicles is a pick up truck. Probably less than 1/3rd actually need the pickup truck. Good if you live on a farm or ranch or travel back roads but otherwise, not that useful unless you tow a big boat or travel trailer.

Most get 20 mpg..for the newer ones. Older ones can do 13-17 mpg and 4 wheel drive even worse.

Gas is cheap and most people don't think too hard about fuel cost.

The original poster article also noted an Infinity QX....not a cheap car either - what, 50K range when a 25K Honda would be just as good - minus the 'status'.

I'm single and have two cars - but both were bought for cash and I put 200K miles or keep them for long long times...

t.
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No. of Recommendations: 7
to buy a depreciating asset is not my cup of tea, never was.


Oh, I dunno. I bought a new car and drove it 11 years. Bought a new car last month, and I’ll probably drive it another 10 or 11 years. Zero interest, and I feel safe on the road.

Different strokes.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Experience is a wise teacher. I had a used car once, replaced the retread tires, the alternator, the battery, the front end....the thing was a piece of junk....it’s one asset was that it was built like a tank if anyone ran into me or I to them, I would be relatively unscathed. It also couldn’t pass a gas station without stopping.

I didn’t buy this car, my Dad did.

My philosophy has been to buy new and not buy an unknown used car with unknown used car problems.

Currently I have 2 cars that I bought new, the 2001 is starting to cost me...I like it, it’s my beater car, the check engine light is on once again but I’m not going to worry about it until the next inspection next summer....still, there is a point where I will have to say goodbye to the old thing. :)
Maybe by that time, I will just let it be okay to just have one car.

Lucky Dog
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Experience is a wise teacher. I had a used car once, replaced the retread tires, the alternator, the battery, the front end....the thing was a piece of junk....it’s one asset was that it was built like a tank if anyone ran into me or I to them, I would be relatively unscathed. It also couldn’t pass a gas station without stopping.

We bought a 3 year old just off lease car 4 years ago. It's been absolutely fabulous and saved us a considerable amount of money. I view a car as a tool, not an emotional purchase, and prefer not to pay more than necessary, though we can easily afford to do so. A new Volvo I bought 30 years ago, well before they became Fords, gave me problem after problem, as did a new Ford Taurus station wagon. There is nothing magically great about new cars or inherently bad about used, though anyone buying a car from Dad was a sucker.

We will always watch our pennies...it's just who we are. But we will spend on other things, like a vacation home, or college educations for our kids and possibly grandchildren should they have them. Would love to take future grandchildren over to an apartment in another country for the summer, or just do extended family vacations in general. No doubt others will find these to be frivolous purchases, but that is something we are willing to spend money on and can afford to do so. We all have our preferences and that's great as long as we can afford them. Money can't buy you happiness but it sure can help buy you what you want.

We retired in our 50's and our assets have continued to increase, so clearly what we are doing is working for us. But we have known many people who made much more money than we did, and are living paycheck to paycheck. It's impressive the money they blew through rather than saving.

IP
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No. of Recommendations: 4
to buy a depreciating asset is not my cup of tea, never was.

Oh, I dunno. I bought a new car and drove it 11 years. Bought a new car last month, and I’ll probably drive it another 10 or 11 years. Zero interest, and I feel safe on the road.

Different strokes.


Not at all. We bought a new car for me last year and a new van for Mrs C the year before. Our daughter got my old car (only 6 years old) and our niece got the old van (12 years old).

Both new cars were less than $50K. We wrote a check for each. The purchases will in no way affect our retirement savings, which are already complete twice over. The point- which I know you know - is that it's not smart to borrow $50K to buy a depreciating asset when retirement is not well funded.

By the way, the neighbor wrecked the Tesla and now drives a small Chevy CUV. Even Tesla's obey the laws of physics, apparently.
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LD:"My philosophy has been to buy new and not buy an unknown used car with unknown used car problems."

Owned a few really old second hand cars......bought a 8 year old FOrd Van from friend in early 70s. Liked it. ran OK....sold it and bought new 1975 Econoline Van.....kept it till 1983 when moved to DC and couldn't park it in garages and commuted by subway to work......so sold it and bought new small car that fit parking spots.....and underground garages.

Also had a 13 year old International Scout....ran but had to keep fixing things.....fuel pump and alternator and water pump , etc. It was like a truck.....needed 4 wheel drive in winter. Kept it one winter then sold it for what I paid for it, bought year old 'new' Scout at bargain price (4 cylinder, no a/c)....everyone wanted V8 and a/c in new ones. Kept it until I moved to DC six years later.


- ---

LD:"Currently I have 2 cars that I bought new, the 2001 is starting to cost me...I like it, it’s my beater car, the check engine light is on once again but I’m not going to worry about it until the next inspection next summer....still, there is a point where I will have to say goodbye to the old thing. :)
Maybe by that time, I will just let it be okay to just have one car."

When I moved to TX, bought new Honda...kept it 17 years. Mom died and I inherited Buick Lesabre. Put 100,000 miles more on it in 2 years and ran it up to 200K miles. Decided that was enough (had to spend $1500 on transmission work)....and sold it. Bought new one. Put 200K miles on it in 7 years.

Wound up buying Toyota Prius after sold the Honda Accord after 17 years. That car still ran fine but figured at 17 years, I got my money's worth out of it - and had 165K miles. Probably would run to 300K but I'd let someone else do it. Think it had only $1500 in repairs entire life, plus timing chain replacement ($500).

Prius now 13 years old and going strong. No plan to replace it.

Main road car is CHevy Malibu....second one. 125K miles in 4 1/2 years. Will drive it to 200K and get new one.

Yeah, at 20 years, things start to go wrong. rubber wears out. Gaskets start to go. Leaks developed. things rust (if you got salt on roads).....

So it goes. I've had my fun with cars. Had a Corvette. Had 4 wheel drive off road type vehicles (but didn't). Had vans. Never had pick up and no plans for one. Never even drove a pickup truck.

t.
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"A new Volvo I bought 30 years ago, well before they became Fords, gave me problem after problem, as did a new Ford Taurus station wagon."

Volvo cars were not great for long term reliability and often had electrical and other problems.

Ford stood for 'found on road dead' for many years. Some models were unreliable.

I've always been a GM person. Had good experiences with them, other than the crappy alternators they used to have that died, by design, at 70K miles.

t.
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"By the way, the neighbor wrecked the Tesla"

One of problems with Tesla is that there is no after market parts for car - and of course, not much of a 'dealer' network if anything goes wrong.

Any collision in a Tesla doing damage is more likely to be a 'total write off'. Even minor damage could be months to repair.

Hope he wasn't using 'auto pilot' and wasn't paying attention until it crashed itself.


t.
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Hope he wasn't using 'auto pilot' and wasn't paying attention until it crashed itself.

No. Driving too fast on an unfamiliar road. Spun out into a lake. Human error. Not that I'm shaming him in any way, I've done the same, just that the car I did it in cost $300 and not $50,000.
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Volvo cars were not great for long term reliability and often had electrical and other problems.

I am talking day 1 issues. Yes, covered in the warrantee and a PITA to get dealt with. I like that someone has already dealt with the new car issues before I take it on. As for GMs, they seemed to be the ones with the paint peeling off endlessly.

We've switched to Toyota and Hyundai and have had fabulous results, new and used.

IP
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No. of Recommendations: 13
One of problems with Tesla is that there is no after market parts for car - and of course, not much of a 'dealer' network if anything goes wrong.

Any collision in a Tesla doing damage is more likely to be a 'total write off'. Even minor damage could be months to repair.

Hope he wasn't using 'auto pilot' and wasn't paying attention until it crashed itself.


Just a quick reminder that pretty much everything tele writes is wrong. Always. I'm beginning to suspect that even his personal experiences are completely made up.

-IGU-
(had two instances of damaged Teslas: some guy rear-ended my Model S; and my daughter got hit driving my Model 3)
(both repairs were done within weeks, both cars were drivable while waiting for parts, and insurance paid for most)
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"Just a quick reminder that pretty much everything "
******************************************************************
Whether up or down, everyone can be mistaken and everyone may be involved with
many accidents.

Howie52
Folks who use absolutes may sometimes be exaggerating their views.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
...is the Ford F-150....

Huh? Sorry....does not compute.

The F-150 is a girly truck...

Go F-350!!

BruceM
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Huh? Sorry....does not compute.

The F-150 is a girly truck...

Go F-350!!

BruceM


-----------------

My GF drives an F-650. I didn't know the numbers went that high. It has a Caterpillar diesel in it. And believe it or not, it is not her biggest truck.
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We've always had a PU until recently

1963 Chev 1/2 ton 283 4 sp. Drove the wheels off it

1975 GMC 6 cyl auto. Drove 4 years


New 1990 F-250 5-speed. Worked the crap out of it. 15 years and a billion miles

New 2005 Frontier. A 'gentleman's' truck. Well made but don't ask it to do real PU work...it won't like it.

After 12 years the Frontier only had 48,000 miles...just don't drive it much so gave to son 2017. Been pickup-less every since.

BruceM
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We have two UPs -
one- a 1986 "beater" bought new that is my farming truck
two- a 2008 that is our "car" for groceries and church

The last car I owned was a 1964 Rambler that I had while in the U.S. Navy.

Rich (haywool)
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Growing up...

Dad had a F-250 Extended Cab Pickup with a topper that he bought used (man, that thing was long!)

Not that we can call these pickups, but I actually had them (hauled stuff to and from college and graduate school as they all had a topper and fit my budget)...

Used Chevy Luv pickup that I paid $300 cash for it (traded it for the Datsun 2 years later)
Used Datsun pickup (totaled it from a rear end collision after one year)
Used Nissan pickup (sold when I moved to NYC and didn't need a vehicle)

Fast forward to decades later after having owned used Honda Accords, new Acura Integra, new Honda mini-van, used Honda Civic, used Mercury Villager mini-van, new Honda Element, used Mercury Mariner, used Honda Element, and a used Honda Insight that all graced our driveway and garage at various times (and included outfitting our teenagers with used vehicles)...

After driving a new 2005 Honda Element that I drove for 12 years and 237K miles, I sold it for $4600 and bought a new 2017 Honda Ridgeline when it came out and have really enjoyed it. I've ended up hauling a lot more stuff than I originally thought I would - bikes, firewood, scenery for productions, camping gear, moving children across the country, lumber, dirt, mulch, boxes of stuff, etc... . I expect to drive it for a total of 10-12 years as well.

I have purchased all of our vehicles in cash starting with my first little Chevy Luv bright candy blue "pickup" for $300. It had no bumpers, so a friend of my Dad's welded on some heavy duty pipe that I painted black, and I installed turn signals on the front pipe bumper. I can't say it was my pride and joy, but it was what I could afford at the time and slowly upgraded over the years sticking to a budget I could afford.

A pickup is nice to have, but like any vehicle - only if you can afford it. Ben's link to the WSJ article which was pretty absurd regarding the 47 year old couple in Denton, TX who were way over-extended with the combination of their mortgage, student loans, CC debt, and 4 cars that were financed/leased even before Covid-19 hit and took away one of their incomes. They were servicing $5,100 a month in debt on a $150K household gross income.

My take on that article was it was not just the Ford F150 that was the root of all their problems. It was that they financed everything in their lives and were set up for a fall as a result. We live deep in pickup country as well, so I wonder what percentage are in financial holes due to debt like the couple in that WSJ article.

Then again, we are the only parents that made our kids as teenagers drive a used mini-van to and from high school. They got ribbed for it for sure, but character building never hurts.

BB
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One of problems with Tesla is that there is no after market parts for car - and of course, not much of a 'dealer' network if anything goes wrong.


Teslas are super expensive to repair. We had a claim on one—(I work in insurance)—very moderate rear-end impact to a Tesla bumper. Probably a $3k repair on a Toyota or similar. Repair was WELL over $10k on the Tesla and—not kidding—we had to pay to replace the windshield. It was not actually damaged, but it was manufacturer recommended that the W/S be replaced because of the nature of the unibody construction (which pretty much all cars are now anyway). And maybe sensors—I don’t recall now. We questioned the heck out of that, but ultimately had to pay.
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Just a quick reminder that pretty much everything tele writes is wrong. Always. I'm beginning to suspect that even his personal experiences are completely made up.


Hehehe... somewhat agree. We’ve had several claims in my unit for Teslas, and while I will say repairs have been much more expensive than for other vehicles, repair time was not significantly longer. And they DEFINITELY weren’t total losses because of relatively minor repairs. That would actually be pretty awesome if they were—salvage values would be extremely high.

By far the worst claim one of my adjusters ever handled was for a Porsche. It was some super special model that they made 12 of. This was several years ago, but they paid over $200k for it, and had owned it less than a week. Not to mention the coverage issues (he hadn’t added it to the business policy, but since it was within 30 days we had to cover it, along with his fleet of construction trucks), but in that first week, his wife backed out of the garage, hit the gas instead of the brake, and over a foot—high brick garden wall. Pretty much ripped open/off the entire underside of the car. The car LOOKED great except for two flat tires.... but everything underneath and a lot under the hood was DESTROYED. I had to talk to the owner—the value came back at considerably less than what he paid—and I remember him literally crying over that car.
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Then again, we are the only parents that made our kids as teenagers drive a used mini-van to and from high school. They got ribbed for it for sure, but character building never hurts.

Really? How onerous. Ours took the school bus.

Youngest used to quiz me on why we drove a Hyundai Elantra while his friends' parents, and sometimes his friends, drove much nicer cars. I explained that our car got us from point A to point B just as well as theirs, and we saved the extra money, made it work for us, to allow Dad to retire earlier. Also told him it was because we intended to pay for their college educations without either of the kids having to take out loans. Senior year in high school he came up to me and thanked us. He said his friends with the fancy cars were all stressing out how to pay for college, and he appreciated not being in that same situation.

Some lessons take some time to learn.

IP
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AdrianC said:

My neighbor bought a $50K Tesla - "Only 5 short years until I own it".
Hmm. Borrowing $50K to buy a depreciating asset is not my cup of tea, never was.

****-****-****-****-****-****-****

pauleckler said: Transportation has to be part of your retirement planning.

If you've got it, why not flaunt it. (But not with borrowed money.)


We had never bought a brand new vehicle until 2016. All our vehicles had been used (no trucks but we did have Ford Club Wagon, GMC Suburban and Ford Expedition because we needed something for family and towing a travel trailer) and we kept them for 16 year. Funny how it was always 16 years...not that we planned it, but that's how it worked!

The 2016 purchase was a Ford Explore with all the bells and whistles and finally the color I wanted! We got zero financing and while we could pay cash, we decided letting the money sit in a CD collecting 3 percent interest was the better deal. And yes...it's still collecting 3% until Nov. 2021 and the car will be paid off before that. I love credit unions where you can add to existing CD's!

I would like to also mention that this and a couple more new vehicles were always budgeted in our financial planning when DH retired 13 years ago. We have never felt comfortable buying something we didn't have the cash for except a house. Not only would we never go into debt for a vehicle, we always had an emergency funds incase it needed repairs.

Utahtea
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Really? How onerous. Ours took the school bus.

Not all areas have school buses! There are NO school buses for any of the schools in our area.

I did when I was in High School but then school was also 10 miles away.

Utahtea
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Really? How onerous. Ours took the school bus.

Utahtea writes: Not all areas have school buses! There are NO school buses for any of the schools in our area.

I did when I was in High School but then school was also 10 miles away.


Bus was not an option for our kids. Football, baseball, basketball, track, cross country, speech & debate, musicals, show choir, orchestra, etc... meant their school days and extra-curricular activities didn't take place around school bus hours as their days started long before and ended long after the bus came through the neighborhood. Plus they worked in high school which meant often times they drove straight from school to work.

BB
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No. of Recommendations: 4
Tesla's reliance on rare-earth elements such as neodymium, lanthanum, terbium, and dysprosium, and other critical metals such as lithium and cobalt that require environmentally-unfriendly mining practices may offset the questionable environmental benefit of reduced carbon dioxide emissions. The virtue signalling of owning a Tesla may not be truly virtuous.
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Tesla's reliance on rare-earth elements such as neodymium, lanthanum, terbium, and dysprosium, and other critical metals such as lithium and cobalt that require environmentally-unfriendly mining practices may offset the questionable environmental benefit of reduced carbon dioxide emissions.

Of course you are just making this up. And even if you weren't, what matters are the alternatives. It's never "are you perfect?" but rather "are you better?".

The virtue signalling of owning a Tesla may not be truly virtuous.

Of course pretty much anybody who buys a Tesla does so because it is better and often cheaper than the alternatives. Any "virtue" is a free bonus.

-IGU-
(buys stuff because technology is a wonderful thing)
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No. of Recommendations: 7
"Tesla's reliance on rare-earth elements such as neodymium, lanthanum, terbium, and dysprosium, and other critical metals such as lithium and cobalt that require environmentally-unfriendly mining practices may offset the questionable environmental benefit of reduced carbon dioxide emissions."

I'm sure you are just as upset about the lead in normal car batteries, no? Some of the Super FUnd sites are battery recycling/wrecking locations where used car batteries were broken open to get the lead to sell on the used metal market.....and every IC car has a big battery for starting.

I'm sure you are just as upset about the coal used to refine the extra steel and iron needed to make an IC engine....all couple hundred pounds of it....maybe 300-400-500 lbs of iron and steel for all those pistons and 'heads' and , don't forget, mufflers and tail pipes and exhaust pipes, manifolds, and extra car weight to support it all.

But you forgot to whine about all the copper needed as well too...usually from gigantic pit mines around the world...... but there is copper too in the wires for EVs. Probably more than in an IC car - as you need thousands of feet of wire for those motors and everything else.

And don't forget to whine about all the integrated circuits that cause all sorts of specialized metals to be dug out of the ground, used to make those IC circuits and power transistors to run those EV switching controllers, battery monitor systems, battery charging devices, etc.

And while you are at it, don't forget to whine about all the aluminum , dug out of the ground at expense, refined (using gigatons of energy), shipped, that is needed as well to build all the cars. Oh, and platinum for all those catalytic converters.....doesn't that mainly come from gold mines? The ones going a mile deep into the Earth?

Yeah, lots of resources are used to get the materials needed to make ANY car and a lot of them are toxic..... if not done right....and nearly all require massive mining of 'something' to make the cars.......

and don't forget the 'plastics' - which you need to whine about, since they come from FOSSIL FUELS!!!! Horrors! which makes up a bunch of Teslas and every car out of Detroit, Japan, Korea and Europe.....


t.


t..
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We need a new vehicle. There is almost no mass transit available here. Our Jeep is 22 years old, and my mom's Honda (which is now ours) is poorly suited for modern road trips (doesn't even have bluetooth, gets crappy mileage, with my back surgery something about the seats makes it ache after about 20 minutes, etc). So, enter the ID.4.

https://www.vw.com/models/id.4/trims/2021/pro/edit/interior-...

I reserved one. It's more than I want to pay for a car, but with the tax rebate it's affordable (about $33K...the Teslas have reduced rebate due to volume already produced). Range is adequate for 98% of my driving.

1poorguy
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Then again, we are the only parents that made our kids as teenagers drive a used mini-van to and from high school.

One daughter drove a Lexus ES350 and the other drove a Lexus ES330.

PSU
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My son borrowed the used use McLaren once.
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We need a new vehicle. There is almost no mass transit available here. Our Jeep is 22 years old, and my mom's Honda (which is now ours) is poorly suited for modern road trips (doesn't even have bluetooth, gets crappy mileage, with my back surgery something about the seats makes it ache after about 20 minutes, etc). So, enter the ID.4.

https://www.vw.com/models/id.4/trims/2021/pro/edit/interior-......

I reserved one. It's more than I want to pay for a car, but with the tax rebate it's affordable (about $33K...the Teslas have reduced rebate due to volume already produced). Range is adequate for 98% of my driving.


Did you test drive it? Will the seats actually feel better for you?
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My son borrowed the used use McLaren once.

That's great. I'm sure you didn't understand the purpose of my post. The meaning is hidden in there.

PSU
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That's great. I'm sure you didn't understand the purpose of my post. The meaning is hidden in there.

No I actually did. Maybe mine was missed who knows, it's all in fun. No harm.
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No I actually did. Maybe mine was missed who knows, it's all in fun. No harm.

What was the meaning of your post?

Mine was that you don't judge the kids by what they are driving to high school. I see that far too often here and also in real life. People think we are out there buying expensive luxury cars for my my kids and spoiling them. Yet my wife and I didn't spend anything for the cars. Both cars were hand-me-down used cars from their grandparents when they bought new cars for themselves.

PSU
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Mine was that you don't judge the kids by what they are driving to high school.

Exactly no matter what they drive, just for one day, several days, or if they take the bus!!

Lexus = no problem :)
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It's not available for test drive. However, I can change anything I want (including changing my mind). When it's available for test drive I will do it. Assuming they allow test driving with COVID.

My Jeep seats feel fine. Just the Honda bugs me.
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One daughter drove a Lexus ES350 and the other drove a Lexus ES330.

My oldest son drove the yellow Ford that used to belong to his grandmother.
He sobbed to us, "I cannot even hold my head up, you making me drive a GRANDMOTHER's yellow car."
When he got rear-ended (light tap) and the brake light got broken, I told him how to fix it with some red cellophane. But he would not fix it, just too embarrassed to drive a yellow car.

Next year #2 son got to drive it his last 2 years, since #1 son eschewed it. He did not care about the yellow-ness or the grandmother-ness. (He fixed the brakelight, and broke my bench vise trying to straighten out the bumper. Which he did not admit to until several years later. They hid the broken vise in newpapers and put the pieces in the trash.)

#3 son could not WAIT for his senior year. Would NOT take the bus. He got rear-ended coming out of school and the trunk got squashed in. Some sledgehammer work and it became drivable. But he said he learned his lesson, and the rest of the year took the bus to school and drove the car everywhere else besides school.

Guess which one is a currently broke 40 year old living in a rundown rented house.
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I did not know you could change your mind after ordering it. Why not let you test drive it, without anyone else in the car. They should allow it unaccompanied. My last two vehicles they allowed it but certainly some places insist. All of that was before the virus.
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It's a reservation, not a solid order. I paid a small reservation fee, and chose the package(s) I wanted. At some point the order becomes fixed (i.e. they've started building it and you can't change your order after that). They'll start building it probably in 2021. The fee is fully refundable. I suspect that if I refuse the vehicle they'll just keep it in stock on the assumption someone will want it. People "buy off the lot" all the time.

1poorguy
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That is great, I had no idea they would do that.
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