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This 22-year-old earns $200,000 per year in Tulsa, Oklahoma—and saves around $11,000 a month. Now he’s on track to retire in his 30s.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/how-this-22-year-old-earning...

Tulsa Remote is a recruitment initiative that aims to attract remote workers to the city. Its primary perk is a $10,000 grant, which is distributed over the course of one year, during which participants are obligated to live and work within Tulsa’s city limits.

When Brock was 18, a mentor he met at a robotics club when he was a kid offered him a job as a DevOps engineer. He decided to accept it instead of going to college. “It just didn’t make financial sense to take four years and however much it would have cost to go to college instead,” he says.

</snip>


Now here's a young man who understands "the skim". <LOL>

intercst
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Yeah, but on the other hand, he has to work in DevOps. ;)

(*Career software engineer here. DevOps are the guys responsible for formal software builds, tagging files, release notes, release process, etc. Dull stuff, IMO. Kinda surprised he's getting paid $200k at his level of experience for this kind of work. His mentor did him a solid favor getting him into this role!)
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And this, too, will stop! And he'll be out on the streets with no credentials. Tough place to be.
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"Yeah, but on the other hand, he has to work in DevOps. ;)

(*Career software engineer here. DevOps are the guys responsible for formal software builds, tagging files, release notes, release process, etc. Dull stuff, IMO. Kinda surprised he's getting paid $200k at his level of experience for this kind of work. His mentor did him a solid favor getting him into this role!)
"

My impression was he was doing this from age 18; so some 4 years. The 200k might be his most recent or even future earnings.

JimA
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Heh.

The irony is that if I was 22 making $200k a year in a job I could do from anywhere, an extra $10k would not be enough financial incentive for me to move to Tulsa to do it.

After reading much of the article, it does indeed seem that he has now left Tulsa:

As for leaving the program after a little more than a year, “They have a goal of making me stay there longer, but the agreement is to try it out for a year. I held up that side of the agreement and I tried it out for a year and I thought it was great,” Brock says.

Kid's got a good gig.
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"The irony is that if I was 22 making $200k a year in a job I could do from anywhere, an extra $10k would not be enough financial incentive for me to move to Tulsa to do it."

article said his base salary was $170K and he got a 30K bonus for performance.

That probably in line for many software jobs especially if you work for CA company or web centric company like Amazon, etc.

Yeah, he tried that Tulsa job for a few years, paid off loans, lived LBYM, and now going 'roving Nomad' in his van for a while till he tires of that. probably find a home base in a few years. Will be hard to work from van through the winter months full time.

t.
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Hawkwin writes,

The irony is that if I was 22 making $200k a year in a job I could do from anywhere, an extra $10k would not be enough financial incentive for me to move to Tulsa to do it.

</snip>


It seems his goal is to spend a few years touring the country in a van while making big bucks working remotely. If the good citizens of Oklahoma are willing to pay him $10,000 as part of the journey, why not take them up on it?

intercst
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If the good citizens of Oklahoma are willing to pay him $10,000 as part of the journey, why not take them up on it?

Because...Oklahoma...

You would have to juice the offer a lot more than $10K to get me to move there. Especially when I can live in CA or CO or HI or any other (nicer) place. Quality of life matters.
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"You would have to juice the offer a lot more than $10K to get me to move there. Especially when I can live in CA or CO or HI or any other (nicer) place. Quality of life matters."

A lot of road nomads register their vehicles in South Dakota and get a South Dakota drivers license. No need to show up for annual inspection.

Or do same in TX with a mail drop or mail service handler. There are several big ones in Texas. No state income taxes but you got to return to get your vehicle inspected annually.

About 20 years ago, met middle age owner of van in HI. Lived in it full time. Worked a couple months a year to save up for rest of year. took 9 months off. Went to state park every day and used facilities there - right on the beach - showers/rest rooms. Had TV set in van, stereo system. Park closed at 9pm or so but he parked in friends driveway at night and slept there. Been doing it for years. Low cost health care in HI. Otherwise, low key lifestyle. Went swimming just about every day. Had 'friends' drop in and got to know a bunch of the regulars. Hit the grocery store a few times a week.

t
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And this, too, will stop! And he'll be out on the streets with no credentials. Tough place to be.

There's nothing that says you have to go to college right out of high school. If he finds he needs credentials, he could certainly then go get them, hopefully having been mature enough to save a good nest egg in the meantime.

IP
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Because...Oklahoma...Quality of life matters.

Have you ever been there? Seems to me that prejudice like this is exactly why programs like the $10K incentive are needed and a good idea. This country is so large that we just don't understand our more distant USians...an important goal.

I worked for a company that had a plant in Tulsa and I had to go down there from time to time. While I will admit it was a bit strange that there seemed to be an Arby's on just about every corner, the people were warm and friendly. This Yankee felt very welcome there. It quickly became apparent that the "good ole boy" routine often masked a highly intelligent person, and you would do yourself a disservice to follow gross generalizations that other areas of the US hold for this area.

IP,
admitting it is too flat for me and I have no desire to live there
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I worked for a company that had a plant in Tulsa and I had to go down there from time to time. While I will admit it was a bit strange that there seemed to be an Arby's on just about every corner, the people were warm and friendly. This Yankee felt very welcome there. It quickly became apparent that the "good ole boy" routine often masked a highly intelligent person, and you would do yourself a disservice to follow gross generalizations that other areas of the US hold for this area.

hmmmm . . . but you were only visiting . . . not living there every day for an extended period of time. Your descriptions reminds me of what I was saying about my move from Silicon Valley in CA to Raleigh, NC in the mid-70's - for the first several months. Eventually, I modified my view as I began to understand how superficial "Southern hospitality" really was. Pleasant, graceful and kind was extended to visitors, but just below the surface they knew you were just another "damn Yankee" so your opinion didn't matter.
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hmmmm . . . but you were only visiting . . . not living there every day for an extended period of time.

Visiting repeatedly and working remotely with people in Tulsa extensively. My product was made there and I interacted with manufacturing, holding their toes to the fire if need be when something went off spec, which was rare.

Eventually, I modified my view as I began to understand how superficial "Southern hospitality" really was. Pleasant, graceful and kind was extended to visitors, but just below the surface they knew you were just another "damn Yankee" so your opinion didn't matter.

Hmmm, maybe you just fell into the trap of informing them that they should do things the way it used to be done where you used to live. Reminds me of the bumper stickers we saw while living in the USVI, (8 years enough for you for a timeframe?) The stickers said something along the lines of "We don't care how they did it where you USED to live." Another was along the lines of "If it was so great where you used to live, GO BACK."

It's not so much that your opinion doesn't matter, it's just not the ONLY opinion that matters. Perhaps you were not as diplomatic as was required.

IP,
who left the cold north for the south 5 years ago, and loving it except for the HOT, MUGGY summer
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Hmmm, maybe you just fell into the trap of informing them that they should do things the way it used to be done where you used to live.

No. I lived, worked and studied there for 6 years, though. I didn't just visit periodically for a job.

I guess you feel that you know better. Could it be that you, not me, are the one who believes that theirs is the only opinion that matters?
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Hmmm, maybe you just fell into the trap of informing them that they should do things the way it used to be done where you used to live.
...
No. I lived, worked and studied there for 6 years, though. I didn't just visit periodically for a job.


6 years doesn't matter if you were not there for generations. 6 years is nothing. I saw the same in PA where I lived for decades, and the Caribbean where we lived for 8 years. Worse yet that for part of that time you were a student. Nothing quite so transitory as student "residents." So you were viewed as a short timer, the most transient of transient, and they didn't take your suggestions as being constructive? Not surprising. You were not around to understand the history, and not likely to be around long enough to deal with the consequences of your suggestions.

I guess you feel that you know better. Could it be that you, not me, are the one who believes that theirs is the only opinion that matters?

LOL. Or it could be that I am the only one out of the two of us who understands cultural differences and the need for caution in suggesting changes when new to the area. I've lived in many places and have always felt welcomed everywhere, though I have seen the frustration of locations that attract transients with the imposition of outside ideas without understanding of how things work locally.

Maybe it is you, and not the southerners that have the problem. And that problem may be a need to better understand cultural differences are present even within the "United" States of America, where diplomacy is still needed.

IP
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It quickly became apparent that the "good ole boy" routine often masked a highly intelligent person, and you would do yourself a disservice to follow gross generalizations that other areas of the US hold for this area.


no, no, definitely stay out for OK and Texas, Montana, SD, WY, ID... It's horrible all those places. Landsharks abound. Also, can't go out at night for all the bears and roving bands of toothless mullet masters roving the streets in lifted 4x4's with straight pipes on their diesels. Horrible, terrible very bad places. Better you stay in NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, Portland etc
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Or it could be that I am the only one out of the two of us who understands cultural differences...

Well, to have cultural differences, the South would first have to develop a culture...

(ducks)
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Well, to have cultural differences, the South would first have to develop a culture..

Europe says the same of all of the USA. I consider that ignorant too.

I guess it's easier to dismiss others as inferior than to learn about them.

IP
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Well, to have cultural differences, the South would first have to develop a culture...

(ducks)


Yeah, I get you’re trying to be funny, but this kind of thing is not funny, and it’s BS like this that plays into a lot of the divisiveness in the US today.

The south has a culture. It’s rich and wonderful with dark spots.

Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.
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hern hospitality" really was. Pleasant, graceful and kind was extended to visitors, but just below the surface they knew you were just another "damn Yankee" so your opinion didn't matter.

Or maybe they were being as polite as they could because yet another “damn Yankee” was telling them how superior northerners are and how we should do things the same as you.

Seriously: two sides to every story and there’s are lot of broad brushes being painted with here.

I’ve had the great fortune to live in many different places, born a “Yankee” with “Yankee” parents, and am a happy southern transplant by choice. One place is not objectively better than another, and no group is monolithic.

It’s amazing to hear “southerners are…” from mouths of people who’d never utter “black people are…” or “Hispanics are…” or “Asians are…”
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Yeah, I get you’re trying to be funny, but this kind of thing is not funny, and it’s BS like this that plays into a lot of the divisiveness in the US today.

Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.



The south has a culture. It’s rich and wonderful with dark spots.


What is the Southern culture? Please, tell me. All I have seen is:

Music = twangy country music. Oh sorry, Elvis.
Food = fried carp or charred meat brushed with sugary sauce.
Universities = football camps.
Idea of heaven = God, guns and bourbon.
All stereotypes but all too prevalent.
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Sorry my experience living in NC offends you so much that you have to make up horrible lies about me and how I interacted with my friends and colleagues there.

It's actually a great place to live . . . as long as you can overlook the deep-seated racist ideas that have fomented there since the Civil War. . . and as long as you are White. But hey, the South's gonna do it again.
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Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.

Who is? Individuals, sure. The south’s got moronic asshats just like “the north.” (Donald Trump, anyone?)

Southern culture is as varied as any other culture. The Blues were born—and are still much loved—here in Memphis. Also arguably Memphis was the birthplace of Rock and Roll. Stax records, here in Memphis, was the second largest producer of soul music after Motown. Athens, Georgia produced bands like REM and the B-52s, and kind of led the way for a lot of Indie rock back in the 80’s and 90’s. If you think Nashville only produces twangy country music, you’re not paying attention. Last I checked, Austin’s music scene was hot.

Food—yeah, catfish and barbecue ARE awesome. It’s too bad that great southern town of New Orleans has no food culture and there’s just not a good restaurant to be found there (or famous chefs. Or good music, for that matter).

Yeah, the south has some terrible universities, too. William and Mary has only produced 4 US presidents and has virtually no notable alumni… same with Rice, SMU, Virginia Tech and many others.

I’m not even going to comment on the God, guns and bourbon remarks.

Really, if that’s all you think of the south, you’re not paying attention or just staying in your bubble. And anything I or anyone else says is not going to change your mind, I guess.
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Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.

You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU
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Or maybe they were being as polite as they could because yet another “damn Yankee” was telling them how superior northerners are and how we should do things the same as you.

I wonder how many times he heard "Well Bless Your Heart" and thought it was a complement.

IP
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I wonder how many times he heard "Well Bless Your Heart" and thought it was a complement.

I wonder if Southerners understand how hypocritical it is to say that, compared to a New Yorker's open and loud expression of the same emotion.

If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, ...?
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Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.
...
You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU


And that's funny too. So I guess that ingrained bias is another thing most Americans have in common. I love NYC and Boston, not having visited the other three extensively enough to have an opinion. I grew up in the Boston area and loved at least the 3 short seasons that were not Winter, but moved at 20, not being able to envision affording a home there. Boston is a great walkable city, but you would be insane to drive around in it. Add in the transit system and you are good to go. Ditto for NYC and their transit system.

That said, we chose to move South in retirement, after living here, there and just about everywhere. Great choice.

IP
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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, ...?

More gross generalizations. You do know the "South" is a big diverse place, right?

IP
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I can offer a semi-southerner's POV.

I was born and raised in Texas. My mom and dad were hopeless racists. The N-word was never far from Mom's lips. Dad even used the word to a black nurse when he was in the hospital for an operation to remove a colon cancer (By then in his '70s.)

When I was about 4-5 we moved to Georgia for Dad's work. This was during WW-2, for a point of reference. My racist, bigoted father was horrified at what he saw and learned first hand about real racism in Georgia. He told about black women being arrested on Friday night, and on Monday the white women would come to the police station and pay their bail so they could work the next week as a cleaning maid. I was too young to understand at the time. I have one memory from that time. There was a black woman who lived alone in the woods near our house. Her name was N_____ Annie. That was what we all called her. She did laundry in a huge open pot in her yard.

Dad told about a woman who never said "Yankee". It was always "Damn Yankee." The memories of Sherman's march to the sea had not died down at that time.

I don't know how long we stayed there (Hey, I was only 5!), but we pretty soon moved back to Texas. This was during WW-2, for a point of reference.

I don't have much in the way of actual memories from the era, but when it offended my racist dad, it had to have been bad.

In the army in the early 1960's I was stationed at Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville Alabama. Going to Missile schoool there. One of the guys in my class was a black guy. He was very uncomfortable being in Alabama. Once he had to drive into town for something. I don't recall what. Driver's license or Social Security, but he was afraid. Sure enough he got rear ended by a white woman. He was pleasantly surprised that she was apologetic, and gave him her insurance information. Maybe times had changed. At least in Huntsville.

Some years later I worked at a valve company in Rhode Island (Where, incidentally, I heard the N-word more often than I did down south). We had a large scale test on one of our valves in Huntsville. At dinner, one of the Southern engineers taunted me by saying, "You aren't a Southern Gentleman until you have dipped your pen in black ink."

Would I want to live in the South? No way.
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f Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, ... - knightof3

===========================

Wow.... your view of Southerners rates right up their with Peter Strzok's "Smelly Walmart People".

Concerning your prejudices, here is something concerning denigration of Southerners Education that I'll bet you didn't know....

https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/Sc...
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"If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, ...?"

Seems that 'northern culture' and 'California Culture' can't keep people from fleeing the northern states for 'southern hospitality'.

"With a perfect storm of aging residents, low birth rates, COVID-19 deaths and immigration cutbacks, 16 states saw population decreases last year as the United States experienced the slowest national population growth since the Great Depression."

"The big gainers were Texas, up about 374,000 people for the year, and Florida, "

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...

Seems BBQ, back yard BBQ grills, football, more football, sitting around the swimming pool beat the 'northern culture' of ice fishing, chopping cords of firewood for weeks before winter starts in October, burning those cords of wood in wood stoves spewing pollution all winter long, freezing on weekends, longing for the 8 weeks of actual summer when it finally arrives in July.....meanwhile, in September, they're getting the snow blowers ready, putting on snow ties on cars, fighting mobs to get to work in horrible weather conditions of ice and snow......raking leaves. Oh, right Maple Syrup season in VT.

Yeah, if you want the symphony better live in Dallas or Houston or Phoenix. Same for up north in western MA or southern VT. Or most of WI or MI outside of two cities there.

You can have your 'square dances' and other 'northern culture' stuff. Remember, Jazz started in the south. So did Elvis Presley. Half the 'rock and roll' legends. But Motown wasn't a southern invention , was it......

Northern culture? Pizza in Chicago.....cheese and more cheese in WI?

Yeah, live in NYC or Wash DC or Boston - you've got a hundred 'cultural activities'. Can most people afford Broadway shows at $200/ticket?

Where ever you choose the live there are loads of activities.....

Lived in NYC area.....wouldn't want to go back again. Visit a few times and skedaddle. Culture? Most folks only associated with similar folks.

Lived in Chicago area. Same deal. Most folks associated with similar folks.

Lived in Central VA.....OK if you're a 'been saved' person and there again, most folks associated with other folks. "Ya'll come back, ya hear!"...... "Ain't got but one"...... oh and 'country ham, red eye gravy'......

Now in the Dallas suburbs. Same deal. Neighborhood is 1/3 Asian. 2% black. Everyone is friendly but most associate only with people with similar interests. No different. Oh, and we got a symphony, FOOTBALL, soccer, hockey, world class museums, world class education, top rated schools, a growing population, great county Jr college/vocational system, etc. Ethnic food of all types. And of course, every chain restaurant. 10 different food stores including Japanese market, India market, HEB, Walmart, Kroger, Tom THumb, ALbertsons, Aldi, etc.

You can afford a house here..... not where I grew up. Heck, my parents 800 sq foot starter home, bought for likke $16K in 1948, after two additions is nearly a million bucks to buy. You gotta be making $350,000/yr to afford something like that...... but you can buy my 2400 sq foot house for $350,000 here. With pool.

No cheese heads here. Better pizza in Chicago but we don't do bad and even have 'deep dish' that isn't too bad. We have German restaurants and Polish....Vietnamese...Lebanese...Greek....New Orleans Sytle....Fish of all kinds (lobster not so much). So


As to classical 'southern comfort'....not there.....or anywhere these days. Mostly fiction. Same for 'northern culture'...... TV has evened out just about everything from Des Moines to Pittsburgh, to Moline to Charleston, WV....to Jackson MS to Miami FL.


t.
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In the army in the early 1960's I was stationed at Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville Alabama.
.
.
.
Maybe times had changed. - CNC


-------------------

Wow. Sixty years of racial progress, such as the Voting Right Act, and you use the word "maybe". Sad.

You don't have to want to live in the South to recognize the tremendous progress that has been made over the years, not only in the South but everywhere.

Despite what the liberals like to scream, American is not a racist country. Sure there are incidents, and pockets of bad people but they are routinely condemned by most people on all sides. Mostly, I mean the vast majority, of Americans hold no animus towards other people regardless of race. Most just want to live their lives, take care fo their families, avoid conflict of any sort, and enjoy a peaceful existence.
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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? Fattest, least educated, least vaccinated, ...?

</snip>


After 20 years of living in Texas and Louisiana, the thing that surprised me the most.

While they complain about taxes, they're actually willing to pay extra money for crappier results as long as blacks and Hispanics suffer even more. It was a wonder to observe.

The most blatant example of this was forgoing billions of dollars in Obamacare tax credits and Medicaid funding while rural hospitals were closing.

intercst
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Some years later I worked at a valve company in Rhode Island (Where, incidentally, I heard the N-word more often than I did down south).

</snip>


The Boston area and Rhode Island (RI is basically just a Boston suburb), is about the most racist area of the country. Pro athletes report that they hear the "N-word" more frequently in Boston than anywhere else. You have little kids in the stands yelling it at them while sitting next to their parents.

https://www.complex.com/sports/2017/05/ugly-history-boston-b...

intercst
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Not specifically OK, no. I lived in KS for four years, and I've visited NE as well. OK is sort of southern KS.

It's miles and miles of miles and miles...wheat as far as the eye can see. I guess from a retirement perspective, it's cheap there. And there is decent medical there if you live near the right city. One of my neighbors recently moved to OK. Sold her house, paid cash for a lot more land with about the same size house (so she said). Pretty rural area (2 hours from one of the big cities...forget which one).

Wasn't commenting on their intelligence. OK has some good colleges. And, yes, you can find good/friendly people everywhere. Even red states.

1poorguy (would only move to the mid-west ever again for the lower cost of living)
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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures? ... least vaccinated, ...?

Least vaccinated states certainly not all in the South! Data published 4 days ago. Idaho takes #1 for least vaccinated:

These are the 10 states with the lowest partial vaccination rates in the country, according to the most recent data:
Idaho (52.6%)
Mississippi (56.4%)
Wyoming (56.5%)
Louisiana (58.2%)
Indiana (58.6%)
Alabama (59.2%)
Tennessee (59.3%)
Ohio (61.2%)
Georgia (61.8%)
Montana (62.4%)


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-state...

Least vaccinated states half in the South, half in the North. The interactive map at the link is pretty interesting.

Your bias is showing. You are a smart guy. Please fact check yourself before spreading misinformation.

IP

IP
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Could it be that you, not me, are the one who believes that theirs is the only opinion that matters?

You're both wrong. Mine is the only opinion that matters.

:-)
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Gotta disagree with the food. Not all southern food is great, but a lot of it is. A properly done southern fried chicken is wonderful. Cajun is southern (and really good). I'm not fond of the mustardy BBQ they seem to favor there, but a lot of people love it. There is a legit cuisine that is unique to them, largely stemming from "peasant food" when they had to cook whatever they had handy.

You can find good food in almost every region on the planet.
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Well, they started it. The South tried to secede and failed. And is still clinging to the fantasy that it shall rise again.

There are those of us who advocate dissolving the union. Call it 52 Pick-up. I can see the West Coast States (Plus Hawaii?) becoming a country called Cascadia, or maybe Oceania. (George Orwell may have the patent on the name.) The Northeast could become Yankeeland. The old Southern Confederacy could reconstitute itself, although Texas feels it could exist as a separate nation on its own. Other states could associate however they wanted.

CNC
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Every place has things to offer, and NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and LA are not the only places worth living.
...
You listed five places I would never like to live.

PSU


And that's funny too. So I guess that ingrained bias is another thing most Americans have in common. I love NYC and Boston, not having visited the other three extensively enough to have an opinion.


I have lived in Seattle, Boston, and LA. Love all three. (Well, there are the winters to consider in Boston...) Love to visit San Fran and NYC, although both "put on airs" about their culcha. I am biased towards places with an ocean. San Francisco affects the title "The City" as if there aren't any others around.

I found the Bostonians (Maybe it's just the Northeast) are amazingly ignorant about geography. They seem to confuse Portland (OR) and San Francisco. Their eyeglasses don't seem to be able to focus on anything west of the Hudson river. I had a little quiz I would sometimes give: 1) What is the furthest north major US city? 2.) Which is further north, Boston or Rome? 3.) If you were to fly due south out of New York, over how many south American countries would you fly?

While we are bad mouthing certain parts of the country, isn't the Northeast notoriously rude?

CNC
1. Seattle
2. They are on the same latitude.
3. None. NYC is west of them all.
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While we are bad mouthing certain parts of the country, isn't the Northeast notoriously rude?

LOL. I think many of you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are so ignorant and judgmental.
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inparadise,
thanks for the updated state vaccination rate. I had no idea what was what with that.

I decided to check out this thread since I was born in Chicago, lived up in that area until I was 12, then was transplanted by my father's job to Atlanta. My father, who was from Minnesota, and stepmother, who was from Buffalo New York, were racists. Why I didn't follow in their footsteps, I don't know. Maybe it was rebellion over their disastrous lives.

I've lived in the south for almost 60 years. I've seen it all. I still live in Georgia. I don't think we are any more racist than other places. (And I lived in Chicago and Washington DC area as an adult for a brief time, in southern California for a time as a teenager, which I hated). If I didn't have family here in Georgia, I might try to live overseas, somewhere in Europe. I'd love to have a chance to live without a car, to go almost anywhere on a train.

Hello to MissEdithKeeler!
--Linda
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While we are bad mouthing certain parts of the country, isn't the Northeast notoriously rude?

I, personally, have not found that to be true.

If you look for the negative, that’s what you’re most likely to find.
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Hello to MissEdithKeeler!
--Linda


Hey there!! I took my DBF to Cozy Corner a couple weeks ago and told him about meeting you there. Say hello to your daughter!
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"While we are bad mouthing certain parts of the country, isn't the Northeast notoriously rude?"

We like to think of ourselves as 'brutally frank'!

And after reading this thread, I'm thinking all y'all need to be looking in a mirror.

JimA
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Tulsa is large enough. They are probably reasonably cosmopolitan. Almost anyone can be home there and find what they need.

The most popular places to move tend to have oceans or mountains. That’s not Tulsa. But I would expect that fishing, hunting, hiking, biking, etc are as popular there as elsewhere.

Moving away from family and friends is not easy. In some communities people have been there for generations, everyone knows everyone, and many families are intermarried. Getting settled in those communities can be a challenge. It helps if you are married into one of the local clans.

I think military families have unique skills. They are used to moving every few years. They know how to get involved and make new friends. Those communities have a constant stream of new people arriving. That makes everyone more receptive to making new friends.

Of course, communities usually have a need for participants in their various activities. Many new comers make connections through church, school or various community organizations.

Moving is not for everyone, but you have to respect those who know how to make themselves at home.
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These are the 10 states with the lowest partial vaccination rates in the country, according to the most recent data:
Idaho (52.6%)
Mississippi (56.4%)
Wyoming (56.5%)
Louisiana (58.2%)
Indiana (58.6%)
Alabama (59.2%)
Tennessee (59.3%)
Ohio (61.2%)
Georgia (61.8%)
Montana (62.4%)


There are 13 Southern states, and 50 United States. 5/10 least vaccinated are in the Sourh. Do the percentages.

Fattest US states (adults):

1 Mississippi
39.7%
2 West Virginia
39.1%
3 Alabama
39.0%
4 Louisiana
38.1%
5 Indiana
36.8%
6 Kentucky
36.6%
7 HDelaware
36.5%
7 Iowa
36.5%
9 Arkansas
36.4%
9 Oklahoma
36.4%
11 South Carolina
36.2%
12 Texas
35.8%
13 Tennessee

Do the math.

Least educated states: 2020 stats)

1 Mississippi 21.01

2 West Virginia 23.93

3 Louisiana 25.45

4 Arkansas 29.45

5 Alabama 3146

6 Kentucky 33.13

7 South Carolina 36.06

8 Nevada 36.18

9 New Mexico 37.21

10 Tennessee 37.78

It is not bias if it is backed up by facts and figures.

MEK took offense to my joke... well here it is, explained, and hence no longer funny.

All "y'all" who defended the Southern culture did not refute, and cannot refute, any of these facts.
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And that's funny too.

I find it funny that you can to a conclusion for my reasons without asking. You seem to be think you are a good mind reader.

PSU
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You would have to juice the offer a lot more than $10K to get me to move there. Especially when I can live in CA or CO or HI or any other (nicer) place. Quality of life matters.

I lived in Oklahoma City for two years and could have stayed there happily, except that I hated my job. I had moved there from Boston and left there for Los Angeles. Work was better elsewhere, but quality of life, overall, was not.

Oklahoma City is culturally somewhat different from Tulsa, not quite as Southern, but that wasn't what mattered. In Oklahoma, perhaps because most people grew up poor and many still are, they look out for one another. If your car breaks down, someone will stop to help. Probably several people will stop to help. In Boston they will blast their horns and give you the finger; in Los Angeles they will blast their horns and give you the finger, too, but if your car blocks traffic they might get out and shoot you, not ask whether you need a jump start.

In New England, it's painfully common for old people to be found dead in their homes, often dead for a long time. In OKC neighbors would notice. New Englanders, to use a British phrase, "keep themselves to themselves." This is nice if you want privacy, not so nice when you need help.
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Where are your links?

IP
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"Oklahoma City is culturally somewhat different from Tulsa, not quite as Southern, but that wasn't what mattered. In Oklahoma, perhaps because most people grew up poor and many still are, they look out for one another. If your car breaks down, someone will stop to help. Probably several people will stop to help. In Boston they will blast their horns and give you the finger; in Los Angeles they will blast their horns and give you the finger, too, but if your car blocks traffic they might get out and shoot you, not ask whether you need a jump start.

In New England, it's painfully common for old people to be found dead in their homes, often dead for a long time. In OKC neighbors would notice. New Englanders, to use a British phrase, "keep themselves to themselves." This is nice if you want privacy, not so nice when you need help.
"

This is so bonkers and idiotic and so beyond the pale; you may be the very first person I put on 'ignore'.

How do you live with yourself with this kind of attitude and total ignorance.

A nattering nabob of negativity.

I apologize to others for my brutal frankness!!

JimA
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Fattest US states (adults):

knighttof3

**************

Here is a link showing obesity by state. Scroll to the bottom for the chart

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

"The long-running REGARDS study, published in the journal of Obesity in 2014, brought in individuals from the nine census regions and measured their height and weight. The data collected disagreed with the data in the CDC's phone survey used to create the following chart. REGARDS found that the West North Central region (North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, and Iowa), and East North Central region (Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana) were the worst in obesity numbers, not the East South Central region (Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky) as had been previously thought.[77"

Ignoring the territories, (the highest obesity rate is American Samoa (75% obese and 95% overweight); West Virginia is the highest at 38.1%, Colorado is the lowest at 22.6%.

That is a 15.5% spread (pun intended). Not all that much.

gcr
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JimA759s writes,

<<<TchrP: In New England, it's painfully common for old people to be found dead in their homes, often dead for a long time. In OKC neighbors would notice. New Englanders, to use a British phrase, "keep themselves to themselves." This is nice if you want privacy, not so nice when you need help.">>>

This is so bonkers and idiotic and so beyond the pale; you may be the very first person I put on 'ignore'.

</snip>


Not really. I grew up in Connecticut. There was an old lady down the black who'd been dead over a month when they found her.

I thought the mailman was supposed to notify authorities when the US Mail starts to pile up? Maybe she cancelled the "junk mail".

intercst
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"Not really. I grew up in Connecticut. There was an old lady down the black who'd been dead over a month when they found her.

I thought the mailman was supposed to notify authorities when the US Mail starts to pile up? Maybe she cancelled the "junk mail".

intercst"


One case makes it common? This is an anecdote. Maybe she never got any mail?

I get so sad reading the comments. I'm not sure any of you are actually reading what you write.

JimA
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You're both wrong. Mine is the only opinion that matters.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was certain that my opinion was the not one that matters. Posters here at TMF make that clear to me on a daily basis. :-)

I miss a lot of my good friends and colleagues back in NC, but I don't miss the "culture" or the food. While you can find good food choices anywhere I have traveled in this world, most of what passes for great "Southern cooking" was not among those choices. There was an awful lot of deep fat frying and so much sugar. If they could find a way to deep fat fry sugar cubes, that would be their signature meal.
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PS to somewhat echo Nessie the Bruce - if you are not white, and not willing to be a "model minority" always deferring to the Superior Race, the South is not for you. The casual prejudices will eat at you from inside.
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Hey there!! I took my DBF to Cozy Corner a couple weeks ago and told him about meeting you there. Say hello to your daughter!

I'll try to remember to tell her. She's at work. In China. So it's 10am there right now.

I wasn't sure if you knew that she is in China now. You and I don't usually hang out on the same boards. And I left the boards for months last year.

I don't know why I'm back
🥸 🤔 🤠 😷 😛
--Linda
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If they could find a way to deep fat fry sugar cubes, that would be their signature meal.

https://cookiesandcups.com/deep-fried-oreos/
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These obesity and education stats just point out which are poorer states -- which we all already knew -- it's not proof of anything else.
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https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/

Wow. That is one depressing chart. Not much any of our states can brag about there. Lets face it, we are simply a fat nation. Even our "leanest" states have obesity of almost 1/4 their population. I think this is something we should all hang our head in shame over, not point fingers at one state or another. 36 states have obesity in over 30% of their population, and quite clearly the problem is spread out all over the US. Sad.

IP
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Wow. That is one depressing chart. Not much any of our states can brag about there. Lets face it, we are simply a fat nation.
Yeah, I've seen a video that showed an 'over time' depiction of a similar map -- maybe from this very site as I see you can go back and look at previous years. It is crazy how fast we've gone from mostly on target to mostly overweight + obese. Even from 1990 to 2000 almost every state changes colors.
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https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/

Wow. That is one depressing chart. Not much any of our states can brag about there. Lets face it, we are simply a fat nation.


A number of years ago a British friend wondered out loud, "why are Americans so large?" "Large" is Britspeak for fat.

When I was in the army in the early '60's - stationed in Germany - many Germans were overweight. When I went back to visit in the 1970's it seemed they were much slimmer. There had been a huge government program with lots of coaching, advertising, and training on weight control. One saw signs everywhere, "Trim Dich!" (Trim yourself!) This program was very successful. Such a program would not work here. We are too distrustful of the government. It would be seen as a left wing/right wing power grab.

CNC
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We like to think of ourselves . . .



+++
+++



TRUER words were never posts on TMF!
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OCD:


TRUER words were never posted on TMF!
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I think this is something we should all hang our head in shame over, not point fingers at one state or another.

And I think that's a nice deflection, but not so fast. This thread is not about obesity but how, provably and factually and demonstrably, the South is inferior to the rest of the US in social measures. QED.
As they say, the difference between the South and a cup of yogurt is?
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A traveler came upon an old farmer hoeing in his field beside the road. Eager to rest his feet, the wanderer hailed the countryman, who seemed happy enough to straighten his back and talk for a moment.

"What sort of people live in the next town?" asked the stranger.


https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/traveltales.html#twotravelersan...
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It is crazy how fast we've gone from mostly on target to mostly overweight + obese. Even from 1990 to 2000 almost every state changes colors.

Coincides pretty strongly with the low fat/high carb craze overworking our ability to process carbs and mounting type 2 diabetes.

After 1980, the low-fat approach became an overarching ideology, promoted by physicians, the federal government, the food industry, and the popular health media. Many Americans subscribed to the ideology of low fat, even though there was no clear evidence that it prevented heart disease or promoted weight loss. Ironically, in the same decades that the low-fat approach assumed ideological status, Americans in the aggregate were getting fatter, leading to what many called an obesity epidemic.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18296750/#:~:text=By%20the%2....

One of the unintended consequences of the Fed Gov pushing food pyramid without data to back it up.

IP,
low carb/keto for over 20 years
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Amen to that RH!

I have lived in many places and traveled to many others, always more curious about the way they do things there than trying to improve or correct their way of doing things to the way I did them where I "used to live." I am constantly shocked at how many people complain about the rudeness they experienced in NYC or Paris, given my great experiences there. Same goes for the "North" or "South" of this country, however that is defined. I feel equally comfortable in rural or urban areas.

But unlike the fellow American woman in Portugal, who when confused over the Escudo that Portugal used for money pre-Euro berated the server in a restaurant with "Why can't you use REAL money!", I try to immerse myself in the way things are done where I am and will not hide my weakness of understanding by berating others. I am traveling with a desire to see and understand their ways, not to assert our ways as being better.

It's a fascinating world. Open your eyes and embrace the differences. Or stay home if all you are going to do is whine and complain. We Americans already have a bad enough reputation out there and don't need it reinforced.

IP
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MEK took offense to my joke... well here it is, explained, and hence no longer funny.

All "y'all" who defended the Southern culture did not refute, and cannot refute, any of these facts.


So the south sucks because of twangy music, catfish and barbecue, college football, guns god and bourbon, and because we’re slightly fatter than the rest of our already fat country.

Got it.
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If Southern culture is so great, why are they at the bottom of all social measures...least vaccinated...?

Weird that you use "vaccination rate" as the intelligence test of "social measures." Do you even notice the racism inherent in your comments, since African Americans are proportionally less vaccinated than whites?
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Despite what the liberals like to scream, American is not a racist country.

While it is difficult to measure how racist a country is, those that have tried do not agree with your assessment:

Survey: U.S. Among 10 Worst Countries for Racial Equality
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-04-...

Most Racist Countries 2021
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-raci...
Worst Countries for Racial Equality:
1. Qatar
2. Serbia
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Sri Lanka
5. United Arab Emirates
6. Slovakia
7. Myanmar
8. Israel
9. Ukraine
10. United States
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...African Americans are proportionally less vaccinated than whites?

With some exceptions. Some data:

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...
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If they could find a way to deep fat fry sugar cubes, that would be their signature meal.

Someone has https://www.cartooncuisine.com/the-simpsons/fried-sugar/

It's often followed up by fried butter https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/239140/deep-fried-butter/

AJ
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MEK:
So the south sucks because of twangy music, catfish and barbecue, college football, guns god and bourbon, and because we’re slightly fatter than the rest of our already fat country.

Don't forget, less educated and less vaccinated too.



SuperLiberal:
Weird that you use "vaccination rate" as the intelligence test of "social measures." Do you even notice the racism inherent in your comments, since African Americans are proportionally less vaccinated than whites?

To me, vaccination rate is correlated positively with belief in science and facts, and negatively with ignorance and an unfounded superiority complex. So yes it's a social measure.

And if African Americans inthe South are less vaccinated, is that MY racism or the South's racism? Have I kept them from being vaccinated? Or has the Southern "culture"?
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And if African Americans inthe South are less vaccinated, is that MY racism or the South's racism? Have I kept them from being vaccinated? Or has the Southern "culture"?

</snip>


African Americans question the vaccine because of well-founded fears that "White doctors be experimentin' on them".

https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-s...

White Southerns avoid the vaccine because their political leaders have convinced them it's a way to "own the Libs".

intercst
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Don't forget, less educated and less vaccinated too

Yeah, we get it. You don’t like the south and you’ll keep finding reasons to support why. I’ll cancel that gift subscription to Southern Living I ordered for you.

I’m done with this goofy discussion, but leave you with this MLK quote in honor of today. Seems apropos whether you’re black, white, northerner, southerner, American, European, etc:

“We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly."
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It's often followed up by fried butter https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/239140/deep-fried-butter/

I had seen this but had chosen to ignore it until now. Remind me again, is IOWA considered part of the South? It seems to be a moving line.

Oh, good, it's state fair fried food season. A new contender for the craziest fried thing: the Iowa State Fair's fried butter on a stick. Fried butter itself is nothing new — it debuted at the State Fair of Texas in 2009, and Paula Deen has her infamous fried butter balls. But this is a whole stick of butter on a stick dipped in a cinnamon honey batter and deep-fried. And then coated in a sugary glaze. It costs four dollars.

https://www.eater.com/2011/8/10/6663841/a-deep-fried-stick-o...

The USA excels in eating cr@p, "from sea to shining sea."

IP
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I had seen this but had chosen to ignore it until now. Remind me again, is IOWA considered part of the South? It seems to be a moving line.

Of course Iowa is notin the South. It is a statistic. Out of the 13 fattest states, 10 are Southern states; in spite of there being only 13 states in the South and 50 in the US.
(I had stated the same thing upthread, but I guess you have to explain things twice to Southerners backspace backspace backspace some people 😝)

Sometimes it's OK to concede a point.
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... but I guess you have to explain things twice to Southerners

LOL. Yes, I know that my choosing to live in the South makes me an idiot in your book. I view it as a great low cost of living alternative to the great white North, which enhances my early retirement in my 50's.

If I seem to be ignoring you, I am indeed striving to do so. It would be wrong to take my silence as conceding a point to you, rather just simply being bored with you and your negativity.

Bless your heart. You have a good night now.

IP
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If I seem to be ignoring you, I am indeed striving to do so. It would be wrong to take my silence as conceding a point to you, rather just simply being bored with you and your negativity.

Bless your heart. You have a good night now.

IP


------------

Yep. Have a rec.
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Bless your heart. You have a good night now.

IP


Did you mean, "Bless yo heart. Y'all have a good night now, j'heah?."

😄 😁 😆 😅 😂 🤣
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This 22-year-old earns $200,000 per year in Tulsa, Oklahoma—and saves around $11,000 a month. Now he’s on track to retire in his 30s.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/how-this-22-year-old-earning......

Tulsa Remote is a recruitment initiative that aims to attract remote workers to the city. Its primary perk is a $10,000 grant, which is distributed over the course of one year, during which participants are obligated to live and work within Tulsa’s city limits.

When Brock was 18, a mentor he met at a robotics club when he was a kid offered him a job as a DevOps engineer. He decided to accept it instead of going to college. “It just didn’t make financial sense to take four years and however much it would have cost to go to college instead,” he says.

</snip>

Now here's a young man who understands "the skim". <LOL>

intercst


I enjoyed reading his story and watching the video. He even took ballroom dancing lessons while he was in Tulsa. Bravo, Aaron!

He absolutely had a great year in 2021 with his income, low cost of living, and utilization of the Tulsa Remote Program. Looks to be doing very well in his field of sales with the base salary and commissions. Being able to work remotely (2022 will be in the van he purchased), it doesn't really matter where he ends up if he can keep his costs low like he has been doing.

If he can stick to his planned budget he set for his nomad year in the van, he should be able to sock away at least another $100K into his retirement and taxable accounts this year. Great way to enjoy this part of his life with an excellent paying job and the flexibility thanks to being a remote worker.

One of our adult children is also a remote worker, so find these millennial stories interesting on the salaries they are pulling in and the flexibility of being able to live where they choose (or being nomadic in a van).

Thanks for sharing the link to the story. If he keeps it up, the kid might FIRE at an even younger age than you did, intercst.

BB
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Did you mean, "Bless yo heart. Y'all have a good night now, j'heah?."

wow -- that's like saying everyone in every single northern state has a (bad) New York accent.
Here's your sign.
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BB writes,

One of our adult children is also a remote worker, so find these millennial stories interesting on the salaries they are pulling in and the flexibility of being able to live where they choose (or being nomadic in a van).

Thanks for sharing the link to the story. If he keeps it up, the kid might FIRE at an even younger age than you did, intercst.

</snip>


Absolutely! I really didn't scrimp on my lifestyle during my working years. I went out to bars and restaurants almost every night and lived in up-scale, garden style apartment complexes with palm trees, pools and tennis courts. It's just that you could do all that in Houston for a fraction of what Exxon was paying me. When I moved out to California for 3 years after the oil industry catered in 1985-1986, my savings rate dropped from 30-35% of gross down to 15%-20%. It cost twice as much to live that same lifestyle in San Diego/La Jolla/Del Mar.

I still maintain that the smartest guy in Silicon Valley is that Google engineer living in the box truck outside of headquarters.

https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-tru...

intercst
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...admitting it is too flat for me and I have no desire to live there...

I grew up a military brat so moved around a little bit. Each place we lived had its pluses and minuses and it was up to you to either make yourself happy or miserable. No point in being miserable so enjoy the pluses and learn/experience something different.

As funny aside, DW & I were driving one evening up to Tulsa to attend a friend's wedding. The area we lived in at the time had rolling hills and tall trees so you never really saw the horizon and a true sunset like you would at the beach. So we are in the middle of no where and DW points and asks "what is that"? I look and don't see anything unusual, just flat open land with scrub. "That light". Did a double take, it was the beginning of the a moon rise. It was gorgeous and big, something we just didn't get to see.

JLC
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Bless your heart.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Should some Southerner explain to them how big of an insult that is?

JLC
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Music = twangy country music. Oh sorry, Elvis.
Food = fried carp or charred meat brushed with sugary sauce.
Universities = football camps.
Idea of heaven = God, guns and bourbon.
All stereotypes but all too prevalent.


Wow. You say all that like it's a bad thing.
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Thanks for the list of least vax'd States.

I'll move those to top of list for potential retirement.

#pureblood
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He's quitting his job and moving.

https://frominsidethebox.com
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He's quitting his job and moving.

</snip>


That's fantastic. In the 6 plus years he escaped paying San Francisco apartment rents, and assuming he invested the savings for at least a S&P500 return, he's likely leaving the city with an extra $1 million plus.

intercst
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If you read the blog, he apparently moved out of the truck for a time, and then returned. I think there were complications when he changed jobs and could no longer park in the Google lot.

But his truck is for sale, if you're interested. :-)
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I didn't say any of that. I think you must have the wrong poster.
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Bless your heart.

It's interesting to see some defenders of the South speaking up. Fooldom seems to be mostly bicoastal.

That Southern sunbelt seems attractive to many.
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That Southern sunbelt seems attractive to many.


+++
+++


Just come for a visit.

You don't need to move here, we've gotta 'nuff non-Southern "immigrants"!




sunray
a man in FLA jist sayin'


;-)
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It's interesting to see some defenders of the South speaking up. Fooldom seems to be mostly bicoastal.

That Southern sunbelt seems attractive to many.


As I have said many times in this thread, the "South" is a big and diverse place. This part of the "South" has been covered in snow for the past 10 days, with more on the horizon.

IP,
hoping this is not the new norm
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It's interesting to see some defenders of the South speaking up. Fooldom seems to be mostly bicoastal.
That Southern sunbelt seems attractive to many.


but, but.. over HALF of the east coast is made up of southern states so you can be both bicoastal AND southern :D

I don't live in the south anymore but it's just crazy to me some of the negative things said on this thread. NOT my experience at all, which makes sense considering "the South" is really a big area with 11 to 16 states* and with over 100 million people in it.

*the least restrictive definition I've seen of Southern states is the Census Bureau which includes 16 states but I think most people think of the 11 states that seceded (+ maybe poor West Virginia -- which split up Virginia in order to NOT secede but still gets lumped into "the South" anyway) https://www.businessinsider.com/south-states-usa-2018-5
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It's interesting to see some defenders of the South speaking up. Fooldom seems to be mostly bicoastal.

That Southern sunbelt seems attractive to many.


Read an article over the weekend talking about all the recent migration, etc., and that the South now contained about 38% of the USA population. The article didn't define what the South was. Some will go as far north as Maryland and exclude Texas will others will exclusively say the former Confederacy.

After moving to Tennessee learned a new term "halfbacks". Referred to people that lived up north, retired to Florida or some other warm weather area because they were tired of the cold and snow, but the summers were too hot so they went 1/2 way back to where they came from and landed in Tennessee.

JLC
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NOT my experience at all

When most of us say Southern I think we refer to the states south of the Mason-Dixon line. Of course, we had border states that stayed in the Union and midwestern states were originally settled from the Ohio River often from Virginia. Those states have strong southern influence.

When we say Southern, I think mostly we refer to Southern manners and courtesy. Those are the aspects Southerners have so much difficulty adjusting to when they move into the North. Especially New York City famous for its in your face style.

We enjoy many southern traditions including Southern hospitality and many great foods.

No doubt plenty of families have lived in the South for generations and value those traditions. Notherners moving in dilute those efforts, and therein lies the conflict when they object to Southern ways.
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"No doubt plenty of families have lived in the South for generations and value those traditions. Notherners moving in dilute those efforts, and therein lies the conflict when they object to Southern ways. "

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One of the greatest joys a person can find is to observe how someone originally from, oh say
north Jersey or the Bronx, who moves to Savannah, Ga. interacts with locals.

Accents do add so much to entertainment.

Howie52
Sometimes just watching a northerner trying to have the patience to get an answer to a question
from a typical southerner is the height of comedy.
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