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http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/gymnastics/news/story?id=1868988

At least the USOC finally got some cojones.

-MC
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I agree.

It's one thing of the Olympics or the gymnastics federation stand up and say "We will change the results."

But to fail to do it but put a guilt trip on Hamm if HE doesn't is absolutely ridiculous. It's shifting all their accountability to him.

He's said he'd abide by their decision. If they really feel this way, then they should take responsibility for changing the result. If not, then shut up.

--WP
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Not to mention the mandatory 0.2 deduction that they did not take from Yang Tae-Young for his extra hold in that routine. It is as if the entire world is ignoring that little judging anomaly. Has something happened that I missed to make that a non-issue. Or is it just the FIG that doesn't care?
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Not to mention the mandatory 0.2 deduction that they did not take from Yang Tae-Young for his extra hold in that routine. It is as if the entire world is ignoring that little judging anomaly. Has something happened that I missed to make that a non-issue.

I have been wondering the same thing. I don't see how they can continue to insist that he should have won due to a judging error if, in fact, there was also another judging error in the same routine that was in his favor. Just doesn't hold water, IMHO.

MsArden
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<http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/gymnastics/news/story?id=1868988

At least the USOC finally got some cojones.

-MC >

Maybe now people will finally realize how dumb the decision was for the IOC to award two gold medals in the figure scating controversy in the Salt Lake Olympics. It opened up a can of worms that is unlikely to go away. But it is ironic; the decision in Salt Lake was "corrected" as a North American couple had been hurt. Now, in Athens, there is no outcry from NBC or the North American public for justice. After all, an American has not been hurt this time. I don't like the inconsistency.
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Maybe now people will finally realize how dumb the decision was for the IOC to award two gold medals in the figure scating controversy in the Salt Lake Olympics. It opened up a can of worms that is unlikely to go away. But it is ironic; the decision in Salt Lake was "corrected" as a North American couple had been hurt. Now, in Athens, there is no outcry from NBC or the North American public for justice. After all, an American has not been hurt this time. I don't like the inconsistency.


The difference is that in Salt Lake, there were evidence of a corrupt judge. No such allegations have been made in this case. Only that the judges made a mistake. There is an appeals process to correct that mistake, the injured party did not utilize that process. He now wants the rules to be re-written.
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Not to mention the mandatory 0.2 deduction that they did not take from Yang Tae-Young for his extra hold in that routine. It is as if the entire world is ignoring that little judging anomaly. Has something happened that I missed to make that a non-issue. Or is it just the FIG that doesn't care?

Yeah, no lie! I think that needs to be mentioned every single freakin' time the subject is brought up, and for people to start asking Yang Tae-Young to give the bronze medal to the fourth place finisher, as it is really *his* medal.

Grrr. I would really like to write to Paul Hamm and let him know that he's got my support, at least. I don't like how long he was left to twist in the wind.


--Booa
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Maybe now people will finally realize how dumb the decision was for the IOC to award two gold medals in the figure scating controversy in the Salt Lake Olympics. It opened up a can of worms that is unlikely to go away. But it is ironic; the decision in Salt Lake was "corrected" as a North American couple had been hurt. Now, in Athens, there is no outcry from NBC or the North American public for justice. After all, an American has not been hurt this time. I don't like the inconsistency.

It was not the IOC who awarded two Gold medals, the IOC doesn't award medals. Each sport has it's own governing body that is in charge of rules and awarding medals and deciding (for the most part) who will compete at the Olympics.

=) Megan
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Hello,

"At least the USOC finally got some cojones"

It is not an issue of "cojones", it is an issue of fairness and taking responsibility for one's actions. If they want they should punish him with whatever procedures they have like WonderPup says, else they should leave him alone. Of course this attitude is typical for different federations, trying to "pass the hot potato" at someone else and avoid the troubles.

ramsfanray says:"in Salt Lake, there were evidence of a corrupt judge. No such allegations have been made in this case."

It might not be the most clear allegation but they clearly imply something not very clean:

http://www.intlgymnast.com/events/2004/olympics/news_buitrago.html
"IG has verified that Colombian judge Oscar Buitrago Reyes, one of three officials suspended by the FIG on August 21, has lived and worked in Ohio for several years.
Buitrago was suspended for incorrectly evaluating the Start Value for the parallel bars routine of Korean gymnast Yang Tae Young during the men's all-around final, a mistake which cost Yang the gold medal. The gold medal was instead won by American Paul Hamm.
Buitrago is a coach of the girls' team at Gymnastics World in Broadview Heights, Ohio. He is also a professional member of USA Gymnastics, the governing body which oversees the sport in the U.S."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sports/olympics/olympicstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3586147&thesection=sport&thesubsection=olympics&thesecondsubsection=
"The Colombian judge suspended for giving South Korea's Yang Tae-Young an incorrect score in the Olympic men's all-round event lives in gold medallist Paul Hamm's home state, International Gymnast magazine reported on Sunday...
Another of the three officials suspended was American..."


If you search you will find similar articles, the Koreans are (of course) the most loud about it. If you mean that no corruption suspicions had been raised even at the "rumors" level, then you are wrong.

regards





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Paul Hamm is from Waukesha, WI; he attends Ohio State University, in Columbus, OH. (just wanted to clarify...)
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If you mean that no corruption suspicions had been raised even at the "rumors" level, then you are wrong.

One thing though. If the guy was trying to help out Paul and cheat the S. Korean guy, he really needed to do it by more than .1 when they did the parallel bars. No one expected the S. Korean to lose points on the high bar and no one expected Paul to pull out the high bar performance he did.

Going into the parallel bar routine it looked like Paul would have been lucky to get bronze.

No one could have predicted how close the end would be, or that Paul would be anywere near the top of it.
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If the guy was trying to help out Paul and cheat the S. Korean guy, he really needed to do it by more than .1 when they did the parallel bars. No one expected the S. Korean to lose points on the high bar and no one expected Paul to pull out the high bar performance he did.

No kidding! I knew the results beforehand (headlines on a web site that I saw while at work before going home to watch the coverage) and even so when I saw his fall on vault I was half-convinced that the headline I had seen and verified on the USA Gymnastics website were wrong and boy was someone going to be embarrassed. After that fall on vault no one in his or her right mind would have expected Paul to win. Not with 0.10 in help. Probably not even with 0.50 in help.

I have read comments by South Korean officials that it isn't necessarily so much about this particular incident, but that they want to make a point because they feel their athletes have historically been given short shrift in judged athletic endeavors. One article I read mentioned an incident that they feel was unfair that took place in a different competition AND in an entirely different sport! HELLO?!?! Articles such as that one, and the incessant "but the start value was wrong" followed by "when you review for start value you can't review for, as an example, excessive holds" (i.e. let's break the rules when it helps us but not when it hurts our standings) make me respect their position less and less. When this whole thing started I was willing to consider their point of view. Now, no way.
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I have read comments by South Korean officials that it isn't necessarily so much about this particular incident, but that they want to make a point because they feel their athletes have historically been given short shrift in judged athletic endeavors.
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This morning Paul Hamm was on the Today Show, and talked about how it is the coaches responsibility to make sure the correct point value is given prior to the start of the performance. He said it happens quite frequently that a coach will give the incorrect number to the judges. He indicated this could be part of the problem, and the blame is not solely the judges.

Charlie
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I just saw on the news that Wheaties will not feature Paul Hamm on their boxes as they originally had planned. They are still including Carley Patterson, Justin Gatlin, and Michael Phelps. I knew this would happen and I am dismayed.

Stacie
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No. of Recommendations: 5
I just saw on the news that Wheaties will not feature Paul Hamm on their boxes as they originally had planned. They are still including Carley Patterson, Justin Gatlin, and Michael Phelps. I knew this would happen and I am dismayed.

Stacie


I am going to write Wheaties an angry, angry letter. I want Paul Hamm on my breakfast cereal and I want him *now*.


--Booa (angry)
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IMO not putting Paul Hamm on the Wheaties boxes is gutless and chickencrap.
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This morning Paul Hamm was on the Today Show, and talked about how it is the coaches responsibility to make sure the correct point value is given prior to the start of the performance. He said it happens quite frequently that a coach will give the incorrect number to the judges. He indicated this could be part of the problem, and the blame is not solely the judges.

I didn't see the today show, but that sounds sort of off to me. Yes, it is 100% the coaches' responsibility to make sure that the right start value is given. In two ways - one they help create the routines and carefully take into account all of the rules in the code of points. They also consult judges before any competition to make sure that it does get the start value they think it will. (We would have mock competitions with judges coming in and giving us feedback several times a year.) Furthermore they watch at competitions to make sure that the right start value is actually assigned. They lodge an immediate protest if it isn't (*every* coach knows this - it is not that uncommon, although the protests aren't always about start value). I don't think, however, that the coach goes up to the judges in each competition and says "this should be a 9.8 start value." I could be wrong, but I have never heard of that happening. Then again, I never competed internationally.

On vault the coach will tell the judges what vault the gymnast will be doing by showing a 4-digit value. It is possible that coaches make mistakes there.

I don't think the blame is on the judges. I think they did their jobs. Yes, they missed some stuff, but that is the nature of the sport. I think it was stupid to kick them out for making a mistake that isn't all that uncommon (it is common enough that they created the whole protest procedure). Judges do have to look down at what they arewriting occasionally. That is why there is more than one judge. They note what the gymnast is doing in a certain shorthand and also mark down any deductions. They don't just keep track of that stuff in their heads. That way if there is a protest they can go back to their notes and explain their scores.

The people who really messed up were the S. Korean coaches. They knew that protests must be lodged right away. They either didn't feel like bothering or didn't even notice. Either one is inexcusable. Trying to make up for their own mistake by causing this huge media mess and petitioning every sporting authority they can think of and vilifying Paul Hamm (although that could be other people, not the coaches themselves) is wrong!
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