First… I think Biden’s first 10-11 months in office has been very successful. (Keep in mind I am a Bernie/AOC Progressive and no fan of Biden nor at least ½ of the Democratic Party)As posted by GoofyHoofy…“In February 2021, the month after President Joe Biden took office, unemployment was 6.3%, and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected that it would take until the end of 2023 for the nation to reach 4.6% unemployment.In March 2021 Congress passed the $1.6 trillion American Rescue Plan to stimulate the economy, which had withered during the coronavirus pandemic. The plan extended unemployment benefits, increased food stamp benefits, expanded the Child Tax Credit, provided grants to small business and local, state, and tribal governments. It provided money for schools, housing, and healthcare.Not a single Republican voted for it.Yesterday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released the October monthly jobs report; the country added 531,000 new jobs, and said the US economy has reached 4.6% unemployment two years ahead of schedule.Not a single Republican voted for it. That’s not a misprint, I just thought I would make sure you saw it.Biden supporters have turned the right wing rallying cry “Let’s Go Brandon” on its head, getting #Thank You Brandon trending on Twitter.Thanks to Heather Cox Richardson for the information in this summary.”With the Passing of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill (BIB) – Biden, the Democrats, and a handful of (old school) Republicans get another major win.As a Progressive I regard it’s passage with very mixed feelings:+ it can no longer be used for leverage on the corrupt corporate/billionaire owned democrats to get the climate investment and help for the American people in the Bild back Better Bill (BBB) – we badly need.+ (This is why the squad voted against the (BIA). Like them, I support their vote because I don’t trust the supposed “moderates” & ”conservatives” to do the right thing.)+ On the downside -- It does little to directly address the climate disaster. When compared to the 2 trillion now 555 billion in investments in the Bild back Better Bill (BBB) to move us away from fossil fuels+ On the downside – it does little to directly help America’s hardworking middle class and working poor families. +Example: Reform the artificial politically protected prescription drug market in our country Big Pharma uses to exploit and victimize all American families+ On the downside -- it will give away – privatize -- 100+/- billion in taxpayer funded infrastructure to billionaires.+ On the downside -- privatization allows infrastructure to become profit centers for these billionaires that will be run to maximize profits and not maximize the utility to us ordinary Americans. Privatization seldom ends well.+ On the plus side -- we do need to repair and re-build so much, because for a decade or more we though the “infrastructure fairy” would maintain or re-build it for free.+ On the plus side we do not more investment in Ports+ On the plus side we do need more investment in national broadband+ On the plus side more charging stations are a good thingWhen we build the infrastructure (or re-build) do we build it considering the long-term impacts of climate change (populations shifts, killing heat, decades long droughts, sea level rise, etc..) and how it is re-shaping our country physically, financially, politically.My view is I serious doubt that the BBB will be passed, or if it does the corrupt corporate owned and controlled “moderates” and “conservatives” will strip it of most of the badly needed climate investments and most of the helps for America’s hardworking middle class and working poor. If this is the case, why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the like.As all they do is promise and never deliver to protect my children’s futures from the climate disaster getting as bad as it can, and meet the very real needs of all Americans.I will always help true progressives like the squad and the other Justice democrats because they are the only ones that seem to be fighting for me and my children’s futures..
If this is the case, why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the like.Because they're much, much, much better at advancing the policy positions (and protecting the existing laws) that you ostensibly care about than if the Republicans win.Democrats might dither about how far to go in enacting measures to fight carbon emissions. But the Republicans might amend the Clean Air Act to remove EPA's authority to regulate carbon emissions - or even pre-empt states from doing so. While neither of those are what you want U.S. policy to be, one of them is materially worse. So you should support Democrats so that Republicans don't win instead.Albaby
Let's see what happens to the BBB...Can the corporate side of the Democratic party earn my trust..
Let's see what happens to the BBB...Can the corporate side of the Democratic party earn my trust..I'm not sure what trust has to do with it. From what you've posted here, on almost every material federal issue, the Democratic party is closer to your preferred policy outcome than the GOP. Which means that it's always in your interest for a Democrat to be elected rather than a Republican, regardless of whether you trust them or not.Albaby
Sorry... I generally only financially support Progressives... Folks like Manchin and Sinema really really don't have my back, the backs of most Americans, nor even most of the people alive today.They could change my mind if the BBB bill has what is needed to battle the climate disaster, and maybe some help with the day to day needs of ordinary Americans like me and my family...
Folks like Manchin and Sinema really really don't have my back, the backs of most Americans, nor even most of the people alive today.Does it matter?Manchin may not 'have your back' - but he's the vote that lets Chuck Schumer, instead of Mitch McConnell, decide the agenda in the U.S. Senate. Coming from an overwhelmingly Red state, having Manchin there instead of the likely replacement (a GOP Senator) is vastly more important in getting measures that you support pass (and keeping measures you hate from being passed) than whether a Congresscritter in a deep blue district is progressive or centrist.They could change my mind if the BBB bill has what is needed to battle the climate disasterIt won't. Honestly, it never did in the first place - but with the removal of the CEPP, it's even weaker on climate now. And that's with climate spending being the largest single element of the bill. Although that might change after the recent electoral drubbing the Democrats took - they might pivot to things that have a more immediate 'kitchen table' impact... Albaby
"And that's with climate spending being the largest single element of the bill."I would guess. You don't think this is a crisis as I do..If the Democratic party does nothing to seriously address the climate disaster -- the ever worsening human, financial, and political costs to the USA and everyone we love will be unimaginably terrible...
You don't think this is a crisis as I do..If the Democratic party does nothing to seriously address the climate disaster -- the ever worsening human, financial, and political costs to the USA and everyone we love will be unimaginably terrible...No, they probably won't.Look, a warming future will involve a lot of bad impacts - impacts that we would be able to avoid if we controlled emissions. But generally speaking, people will be better off even in that warming future than they are today - especially in rich countries like ours. Fighting emissions is more about keeping poor countries from badly degenerating, not about avoiding disaster in the U.S.:The path we seem to be on, at least for now, looks closer to SSP 2, which the authors call “Middle of the Road.” This is a world in which “social, economic, and technological trends do not shift markedly from historical patterns.” A world, in other words, in which we do not heroically rise to the occasion to fix things, but in which we also don’t get much worse than we already are.So what does this SSP 2 world feel like? It depends, [Brian O’Neill, the director of the Joint Global Change Research Institute and one architect of the IPCC report projections on future scenarios] told me, on who you are. One thing he wants to make very clear is that all the paths, even the hottest ones, show improvements in human well-being on average. IPCC scientists expect that average life expectancy will continue to rise, that poverty and hunger rates will continue to decline, and that average incomes will go up in every single plausible future, simply because they always have. “There isn’t, you know, like a Mad Max scenario among the SSPs,” O’Neill said. Climate change will ruin individual lives and kill individual people, and it may even drag down rates of improvement in human well-being, but on average, he said, “we’re generally in the climate-change field not talking about futures that are worse than today.”https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/11/how-bad-..."All the paths, even the hottest ones, show improvements in human well-being on average."That's the key takeaway - climate change will make things worse than they could be, but still better than today, on average. There will be terrible events that ruin lives and kill people that are avoidable. We won't have as good a future as we could have had. But it will still be better, on average, than today. And the degree of 'badness' will not be evenly distributed. People in wealthy advanced economies (like the U.S.) will mostly be able to avoid the worst of it. Which isn't fair, which is why climate change is very much a justice issue. But even though we might not deserve it, life in the U.S. is almost certainly going to be better in the future on most measures of human well-being, even if we don't make any more changes than we have already, despite the rising temperatures.Albaby
If this is the case, why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the like.Because at the moment, the only other option is the GOP. Have you taken a look at what they want to do?
why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the likeBecause half a loaf is better than none. Even though it's less than half as good and climate change is scary (I have children & grandchildren who will have to cope, and I'm far more worried about them than myself).
If the BBB does not have significant climate change $$$ and items to meet the human needs I will regard this as a betrayal by the DNC & DCCC & Biden..It is that simple..Then we get to watch it all burn to the ground..
If the BBB does not have significant climate change $$$ and items to meet the human needs I will regard this as a betrayal by the DNC & DCCC & Biden..Would you have felt that way if Warnock hadn't won the Senate?IOW, would you have felt betrayed by the DNC and DCCC and Biden if the Democrats had failed to pass a big climate bill through a Senate where the GOP had the majority?Albaby
If this is the case, why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the like.As all they do is promise and never deliver to protect my children’s futures from the climate disaster getting as bad as it can, and meet the very real needs of all Americans.Are you the same with your relatives, neighbors, and friends with respect to their views and actions regarding climate change or have you written them off too?
If I am feeling betrayed by a corrupt party I will not support it...If a party promises to do something, and does not I will not support it..I will continue to support Progressives only..If the Democrats betray voters on climate and real help for the American people they will loose millions of voters..I hear is -- you got to support Corporate Democrats because they are kinder when shafting you in the name of billionaires & corporations than Republicans..
I guess I'll just thank you in advance on behalf of the right-wing nutcases for helping to elect republicans.Seriously, albaby's response to your post is the right one.Wessex
If this is the case, why should I ever support any politician from the DNC or DCCC and the like.As all they do is promise and never deliver to protect my children’s futures from the climate disaster getting as bad as it can, and meet the very real needs of all Americans.I will always help true progressives like the squad and the other Justice democrats because they are the only ones that seem to be fighting for me and my children’s futures...I'm not sure why you are posting on this board that is dominated by moderate/corporate Democrats. They've got what they want and they don't give a [redacted] about actually saving this country from anything but GQP control. While that goal is often enough to make them the lesser of evils when it comes to elections, it is not enough to save the country and certainly not enough to save the planet.They will tell you about the lesser of evil argument . . . might even talk about 1/2 a loaf being better than none, etc. But 1/2 a poison loaf really isn't better than none. If Democrats can't govern any better than Republicans, they deserve to lose. And they are going to lose in a very big way in 2022 and 2024 if the moderate/corporate DEMS continue to simply lie and never deliver to those on the left who actually expect action to solve real problems beyond raking in more campaign contributions. There are no acceptable excuses for what Manchin and Sinema are doing. Their actions are motivated by selfish greed and quest for personal power. They are not supporting people. Manchin is pandering to big Coal. Sinema is pandering to her new big Insurance and other corporate donors. They are not helping the Democratic party. They are not supporting America. Their actions are every bit as damaging as the GQP positions in Washington. And if the existing Democratic party is simply too polite to call them out and push an agenda that actually begins to solve the nation's problems, then they cannot govern effectively.That inability (or perhaps lack of motivation) to actually solve problems will cost Dems their majority position in the Senate and possibly even the House. Once that happens, I expect Republicans will get very busy passing laws to limit who can vote, gerrymander who they can vote for, and even how election winners actually get selected after the ballots are counted. It will be very difficult for Democrats to gain majority in the Senate again for decades. The wet dream of Trump culters (authoritarian control of the US by the GQP) will be accomplished. That half loaf won't sound like such a great deal then. I hope reporters remember to ask Manchin and Sinema about the effectiveness of their opposition to the BBB plan when they are part of the minority in a Senate run by Mitch McConnell. Short-sighted selfish greed is not the motive we need from Democrats. Since Democrats are reluctant to actually address our broken economic system, broken legal system and broken climate protections, they are not part of the solution that is needed in this country. They are part of the problem. Rationalizing a vote for Democrats by saying that they are better than Republicans is like saying, "Swallow that bottle of rat poison and just be glad we didn't ask you to swallow two."
"I guess I'll just thank you in advance on behalf of the right-wing nutcases for helping to elect republicans."What about a big thank you to the corrupt corporate owned and controlled democratic "moderate" and "conservative" politicians like Manchin & Sinema for alienating an important part of the democratic base???
NessieTheBruce -- exactly...
Hey! I'm not a moderate/corporate Democrat.
The people who insist about purity are going to end up turning America over to the true fascists -- you know -- the guys who really don't think that elections should decide who rules and who are preparing, as we speak, to voter suppress democracy right out of our system. The policies they will put into practice will make the notion of a "corporate Democrat" positively quaint, inasmuch as there will never again be an option to elect the only people -- Democrats -- even remotely interested in raising the minimum wage, in any programs to help what will quickly become an extinct middle class or the poor -- a class which will expand as the middle one shrinks. They will, with the aid of their fascist Supreme Court, turn our electoral system into the mirror image of Russia's, so the purists can kiss any hope for the future a permanent goodbye.This kind of petulant "if we can't get what we want" was EXACTLY how we got Trump in the first place, if you recall, as they bitched and moaned incessantly when Hillary was running that she was a "corporate Democrat," so it didn't matter if she lost, because "both parties are the same" and nothing matters if our government can't be turned on a dime to provide a perfectly just society, so we may as well go fascist.It's freaking insane. I support every policy the progressives support except one: I do not support surrender to fascism if I can't have every policy I want, and today's progressives support precisely that. It's childish and, as you'd think they'd have learned when witnessing what happens when a fascist governs a society during, for instance, a flocking PANDEMIC, but it's what America is going to inherit if they keep up this foot-stomping "I won't support corporate Dems" crap. And this time, it's going to be permanent -- because there is no longer a Republican Party. There is only a Democratic Party which supports democracy and most of the progressive policies and a fascist party that supports real, actual, not fake tyranny. Those are our choices. A perfectly just society is not -- certainly not at present -- even CLOSE to being a choice.SLL
"There is only a Democratic Party which supports democracy"Funny thing about that..Why don't they make an exception to the filibuster and pass some reforms to strengthen our representative Democracy...If the party actually did support representative democracy they would do just that..The only thing they are doing now is using the issue to try to raise donations for their "fight" for it..
What about a big thank you to the corrupt corporate owned and controlled democratic "moderate" and "conservative" politicians like Manchin & Sinema for alienating an important part of the democratic base???Or we could thank them for not accepting Mitch's offer to switch parties and make him majority leader.
Or we could thank them for not accepting Mitch's offer to switch parties and make him majority leader.Reality is irrelevant to those who demand, like a toddler, to stay up well past their bedtime.They really think that "the Democrats" have the power to do anything they want, and the fact that it doesn't get done is that they're all Manchins and Sinemas, and don't really want to do it. It never really occurs to them that the system is designed to work with two parties operating with good intentions and not merely one party operating with good intentions and the other party trying to destroy the system and install the Fourth Reich.They will blame everyone but the loudest progressives for an imperfect outcome, and refuse to support the very people who can prevent actual disaster. They hated Hillary, too -- and we have tasted a morsel of the outcome when the perfect is made the enemy of the good. They'll do it again, and I don't have any idea how to stop them.I am, however, glad to be no longer young.SLL
I get their frustration. I posted my own rant about Manchin a couple weeks ago. But I do try remind myself that as long as Manchin and Simena are keeping McConnel as the minority leader, that's the most important thing they can be doing.
Funny thing about that..Why don't they make an exception to the filibuster and pass some reforms to strengthen our representative Democracy...Not "they," FK. I suspect you've not heard of the "filibuster."See, the thing is, the Senate as currently constituted IS UNABLE TO PASS VOTER PROTECTION LEGISLATION BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS WON'T LET THEM. BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS PLAN TO RIG THE NEXT ELECTION THROUGH THEIR VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS. COME ON!The last thing they want is to protect the vote. And Manchin won't let the Democrats even CHANGE the filibuster to make it possible to pass voter protection legislation with only a majority. Moreover, some are terrified about what the Republicans will do with the Senate should Trump be re-elected and want to retain the power of the filibuster to prevent them shoving racist laws, further tax reductions for billionaires, anti-LGBTQ and anti-women bills, etc. into the law books without a fight.It's just not as simple as you seem to think it is. They can't force Manchin to help because Manchin isn't really a Democrat at heart. And he's the only kind of Democrat who would ever have a chance of being elected as a US Senator from West Virginia. And perhaps if voters had SUPPORTED DEMOCRATS IN STATES WHICH ELECTED FASCISTS IN THEIR STEAD, we wouldn't be having this problem. But it is what it is, and pretending the reality isn't what it is gets you absolutely zilch -- worse, it will send America into nightmareland if progressives don't face reality and cooperate in stopping the descent into true tyranny.Keep bitching about "corporate Dems." Some of that corporate support got us the votes to at least prevent Mitch McConnell from owning the Senate. Takes a BUNDLE of money to run a campaign in this country, and the voters, sadly, hate taxes more than they hate the threat of fascism, so unlike most civilized countries, we don't have publicly funded elections. Try running for office on only the donations from the poor. And try getting Democrats elected with only the base.You are simply unrealistic -- you have no concept of the ways in which the system itself puts liberalism at a disadvantage in a political environment where the economy is resolutely capitalist and capital vies with the population for power. You want justice and "change," and in truth, Americans hate and fear change, and you're never going to get the justice you seek without taking the change slowly. And if you insist on "now or never," what you're going to get -- for all of us -- is never. We warned what would happen if progressives failed to support Hillary. You didn't listen then, and I'm betting you won't listen now.SLL
I get their frustration. I posted my own rant about Manchin a couple weeks ago. But I do try remind myself that as long as Manchin and Simena are keeping McConnel as the minority leader, that's the most important thing they can be doing.If we had been able to appeal to more moderate independents for Senate and Congressional seats and get more Democrats elected, we wouldn't have this problem with Manchin and Sinema. Biden was elected because he was a moderate, and didn't scare the pants off the independents. But we ran too many progressives who DID scare the pants off moderate voters, and lost the chance to give Democrats the power to actually stop the fascists in their tracks. Now, we have practically no power to prevent them from the level of gerrymandering and voter suppression which can give the right permanent control of this country. I get their frustration, but it's clear they don't get mine. They want a bunch of stuff I want, too -- but I want to prevent America from losing our democracy even more. We can get back to raising the minimum wage when we have dealt with this existential and immediate threat. If we fail to prioritize electing Democrats in 2022 over getting our most beloved policies enacted, it won't matter what we put into law today -- the fascists will simply overturn these policies once in power -- and we'll never have a chance to get them back anyway. I find it astonishing that so many Democrats are actually blind to this danger and more concerned with getting parental leave passed NOW than literally losing democracy forever.SLL
"I am not a member of any organized political party; I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers.The Democrats must hang together to oppose creeping fascism of the right. Why is it the Repugs seem to be so much better at acting in concert?
Why is it the Repugs seem to be so much better at acting in concert?Because they're universally selfish, cruel and evil, while Democrats focus their human decency on a variety of seemingly unrelated issues?SLL
I generally only financially support Progressives... I don't know why, they had all the leverage a year ago to push for medicare 4 all, climate, when Pelosi was up for speakership but they all rolled over, now could you see Joe Manchin doing that? AOC is in the club, all about getting that pension, eventual speaking fees, book dealsDon't vote democrat, these people have to know they can't rely on you for a vote every election cycle and they will come closer to whatever it is you the democratic voter wishes would get done.You have to ask yourself, how crappy is the Democratic Party leadership that half the country will vote for any authoritarian fascist alternative?Our system isn't working for a lot of people, why are people still getting paid slave wages to work an honest job, where is medicare 4 all? wait, both parties are controlled by their donors...lets burn this system down. Vote 3rd party
AOC is in the club, all about getting that pension, eventual speaking fees, book dealsI stopped reading after this stupidity.
they had all the leverage a year ago to push for medicare 4 all, climate, when Pelosi was up for speakership but they all rolled over, now could you see Joe Manchin doing that? Well, at least you mentioned Manchin. Do you understand how a bicameral legislature works? Yeah, House progressives possibly could have forced Pelosi to pass a wish list. Then what? It's not getting through the Senate and the House members whipped to vote for it are providing electoral fodder to the QOP.And then the House is at more risk then it is right now and "burn it all down" relative to any portion of what you claim to want is exactly what happens.
I stopped reading after this stupidity.You should have readd on. Hilarious. The advice is to vote, not for Democrats, but third party.Trolling for the Fascist Party, AKA Republicans. I know few Democrats stupid enough to follow that advice (though I do know some, sadly.) It would work much better against Republicans.SLL
Well, at least you mentioned Manchin. This poster was just trolling to get Democrats to vote third party -- obvious Republican addition to their voter suppression arsenal.SLL
Why is it the Repugs seem to be so much better at acting in concert?Because they are authoritarians. d
Why is it the Repugs seem to be so much better at acting in concert?They hide it better. Not always, of course - remember McCain's infamous 'thumbs down' on their top legislative priority? Or "infrastructure week"? Or going back a bit further, GWB's failed efforts at Social Security reform or comprehensive immigration reform, both of which died at the hands of GOP members refusing to go along? The GOP has had a few high-profile failed legislative efforts.However, they do seem to keep a tighter lid on keeping bills that can't pass at the federal level from ever getting started. McConnell in particular is very adept at killing in the crib any bill that he doesn't have the votes for, so that they don't start to gather too committee votes or headlines. There's lots of members of his delegation that would love to take votes on a gun rights bill or a big deregulation bill or a hardline immigration bill. But he doesn't give in to those pressures. Meanwhile, the Democrats' legislative history is filled with big bold failed legislative efforts that fail very visibly (Waxman-Markley, ENDA, EFCA, Dream Act, etc.) because they're allowed to go all the way through the process rather than dying in the cradle.I think part of it is just due to the national strategies of both parties. The Democrats like to emphasize the GOP as inherently 'obstructionist,' gumming up the works of the Congress - so having lots of high-profile bills dying on the rocks of the GOP caucus fits into that message. The reverse isn't really the GOP's message, so they don't do that as much. Democrats also use that to message to their base that they're really trying to get these things done, which GOP federal leadership doesn't seem to feel like they have to do.Albaby
Corporate Democrats remind me more and more of Republicans. They are arrogant, condescending and their primary goal seems to be to try to shame any true liberals into accepting nothing in return for keeping Republicans from getting in office. If you can't recognize how important they are to the Democrat party campaign funding effort, then you must be silenced and attacked. Collecting more campaign funding and defeating Republicans has become their only goal - the only way they measure their "success".When it comes to supporting the electorate, while Republicans have become the "Know Nothing" party, the Democrats have become the "Do Nothing" party. The ignorant and stubborn refusal to work for the people instead of the corporations will eventually extinguish all Democrat power in Washington. When that happens (in 2022 or 2024) these same smug corporate DEMs will still blame actual liberals for not supporting their "Do Nothing" agenda. The corporate DEMS are anxious to lecture liberals on what is practical and possible. They will make excuse after excuse for not actually taking action. They scold and insult anyone who suggests that there might be some fault in their shameless embrace of corporations and fund raising. But . . . at the end of their terms, they still don't get the job done. That's the final result of all their excuses and petty condescension. They fail to get the job done. That's what voters will remember when they vote them out. . . They fail to get the job done. In fact, it is far worse than that. They don't simply fail to take action. They actually block any effort by liberals in their own party who do want to get the job done. They will support Mitch McConnell's filibuster and make him the most powerful man in Washington rather than support any actions that might ruffle the feathers of their corporate donors. Corporate DEMS are failing to pass true reform just as much as Republicans fail. And they smugly believe that they are superior to those that do recognize and identify corporate DEM failures. In their arrogance and condescension, the corporate DEMs refuse to accept that they are failing to address the country's and the planet's most serious existential threats. Like Republicans, this is just a political game to them. Like Republicans, they will devote more effort to attacking and suppressing their "opponents" than they do actually addressing the nation's problems. And that is what makes them dangerous. If you won't admit your failures, you can never correct them. You will just continue to fail.
They are arrogant, condescending and their primary goal seems to be to try to shame any true liberals into accepting nothing in return for keeping Republicans from getting in office.Nothing? Congress has passed about $3.1 trillion in spending in the first year of the Biden Administration. The American Rescue Plan made a bigger dent in U.S. poverty than almost any other program ever has - and certainly the fastest, since that $1.9 trillion went out the door almost immediately. And the BIF will enable exactly the kinds of significant investments in infrastructure that Democrats have been calling for for years.That's actually pretty amazing results given how narrow the Democrats' majorities are. You can't pass transformative legislation with a tiny majority. That's not how Congress works. The Democrats were never going to be able to pass anything more transformative than their most conservative member (Joe Manchin on most issues) would be willing to vote for. This has never been a secret.That's why I asked FKJacobs upthread if he would still feel betrayed if the GOP had won Warnock's seat, and the GOP held a tiny majority in the Senate. The Democrats' holding 50 seats allows them to accomplish a lot more of their agenda than if they only held 49 - but it doesn't allow them to accomplish all of their agenda. Just the parts that every Senator and nearly every House member are willing to vote for.It's not arrogant or condescending to point out that political parties are coalitions of hundreds of separately-elected Congresscritters and Senators, each of which has their own unique constituencies of voters and their own personal beliefs about what makes good public policy. They're all aligned under the label "Democrat" (well, except for the independents like Sanders and King) - but that doesn't mean that any of them will, or can be forced to, vote for everything the party puts forward. Joe Manchin doesn't agree with Democrats about how to address climate change. This is not a secret - he ran a campaign ad shooting Waxman-Markey with a rifle, for goodness sakes. Everyone should have known that a Congress where you only have 50 Democratic Senators is not a Congress that can pass meaningful climate change legislation. You can't pass a bill without his vote, and he's not going to vote for meaningful climate change legislation. You can criticize Democrats all you want for not getting "the job" done, but the cold reality is that you can't pass legislation if you don't have the votes to pass it. It wasn't possible this Congress. It's foolhardy to blame Democrats for failing to pass legislation they don't have the votes to pass. The fact that they don't have the votes to pass something because the marginal Senator is Joe Manchin as opposed to Kelly Loeffler doesn't change that all that much. Schumer and Biden have only a small amount of leverage over Manchin. Eliding the different political affiliations and constituencies between Senators and Congressbeings by speaking of "Democrats" as if they were a monolith is a recipe for misplaced frustration and, ultimately, a GOP victory.Albaby
"I am not a member of any organized political party; I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers.The Democrats must hang together to oppose creeping fascism of the right. Why is it the Repugs seem to be so much better at acting in concert? Dems tend to argue and think independently - makes for a lot of chaos. Repugs tend to walk in lockstep with whatever TrumpyFoxNewsPropagandaTalkingPoints tell them.
NessieTheBruce... I agree...If the democrats loose in 2022 & 2024..If our representative Democracy becomes a lot less representative..It will be the fault of the corrupt "moderate" and "conservative" Democratic politicians who prefer the oligarchs over the American people almost as much as the Republicans.The Democrats will loose because they are weak, corrupt, and don't do anything for America's hurting middle class and working poor..It seems only the Progressives what to help the average Joe and save our children's futures..Going after Trump and following up on the events of 01/06 will not be enough to stay in office. (Though this is a very worth goal)
To be clear, I supported Bernie with time and money both times he ran for President..I financially support monthly the Sunrise Movement & Justice Democrats & Single Payer CA organizations, I also all the Justice Democrats in Congress or running for Congress.In addition I also financially supported key races for the Senate in Georgia and Arizona.I support Progressives aggressively primarying all corporate owned Democratic politicians.I also support Progressives running against all safe Republican politicians..In the end I voted for both Hillary and Biden (both of whom are corrupt corporate tools)I also vote for my local corrupt corporate owned "moderate" Democratic congress critter in the general election.
wait, both parties are controlled by their donors...lets burn this system down. Vote 3rd partyIt is exactly this sentiment that led to George W. Bush’s victory. That decision led to the US flushing $6.4 trillion dollars down the toilet since 2001. Even worse, 801,000 people died due to combat including over 335,000 civilians. 4,424 US service members were killed in Iraq and 1,833 in Afghanistan. Over 50,000 US service members were wounded in both wars. 21 million people have been displaced due to violence. And we got the Great Recession as a bonus for voting for a third party.That’s what voting for a third party got you.That sentiment also led to Trump winning the presidency. That has led to over 750,000 dead Americans from an ignorant response to a pandemic. In addition, 9.6 million jobs were lost during Covid and estimates are that it cost $16 trillion. The bonus this time was an armed insurrection and untold damage to our democracy.That’s what voting for a third party got you.And now you’re suggesting we try that once again.Based on the the results of your suggestion the first 2 times, voting for a third party has to rank as one of the stupidest suggestions of all time, unless you want to destroy this country.Unless the Republicans suddenly change to believe in non-violence, our Constitution, science, and our democracy, there is only one choice when it comes to saving our democratic republic; VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS. PERIOD.You can’t always get what you wantBut if you try sometime you’ll findYou get what you need.AW
Unless the Republicans suddenly change to believe in non-violence, our Constitution, science, and our democracy, there is only one choice when it comes to saving our democratic republic; VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS. PERIOD.Yep. On the other hand, I will encourage all pubs to vote 3rd party...Pete
I also financially supported key races for the Senate in Georgia and Arizona.I support Progressives aggressively primarying all corporate owned Democratic politicians.I also support Progressives running against all safe Republican politicians..In the end I voted for both Hillary and Biden (both of whom are corrupt corporate tools)I also vote for my local corrupt corporate owned "moderate" Democratic congress critter in the general election.Me too. It's always a matter of choosing the "lesser of evils" when voting. It's just that since the Democrats have become [redacted] to corporate money, their "evil" isn't that much less than the GQP version of politics. And our support of the lesser of evils Democrat candidates is simply not enough to appease the corporate Democrats. They want you to submit to their corporate managers just like them so they don't have to feel like they are selling out. But they have sold out. They care about campaign fund raising and beating Republicans. They just don't care to do anything to address actual problems.The Democrat party is lost and failing. They just refuse to admit it. And they will shout down anyone who reminds them they are not doing anything worthwhile by attacking progressives who want to take action or whining about GQP stupidity. If you want to fix the ailing US economic system, legal system, voting system or the global environment problems, you have to do more than claim to be "not as bad as Republicans". You have to do more than make excuses for not advancing legislation. You have to do more than attack the people who do want to do more. In the short term, they think they are playing it safe politically by avoiding the important issues. They are preserving their corporate funding sources. They are preventing the Republicans from accelerating their drive to create a wealthy elite ruling class. But in the long run, they are losing more to the GQP every time they fail to advance a meaningful agenda.
You have to do more than make excuses for not advancing legislation.Which is what, exactly? Pass legislation that they don't have the votes to pass?If you want certain policies to actually be adopted, you have to have the votes to pass them. That means more than just having a political party that supports the policy win control of Congress - it means that you have to have a majority of individual Congresscritters support the policy as well.Progressives have been spending the last few election cycles increasing their numbers within the Democratic party by replacing incumbents in safe districts with more progressive candidates. But whether something actually gets passed depends on the marginal vote. Even if you could replace a Tom Carper or Tim Kaine with a Sanders clone, it doesn't really get you that much closer to progressive legislation passing the Senate - because the marginal vote is still Joe Manchin.It's not an 'excuse.' Democrats can't pass the legislation you want them to pass because Manchin (and perhaps one or two others) won't vote for it. What is it, specifically, that you want the party to do about that?Albaby
It's always a matter of choosing the "lesser of evils" when voting.I prefer to think of it as choosing between fantasy and reality.Or, as my father used to more eloquently put it when I told him I wanted to pitch for the Dodgers:“Wish in one hand and defecate in the other. Let me know which one fills up first.”Neither party stands for everything I want. So I vote for the party that gives me more of the things I want than the other party.that’s reality.And given a 50-50 Senate split, the Democrats have done an incredibly good job so far. While I support many things the progressives support, the original $6+ trillion or $3.5 trillion were pure fantasy. By lowering their goals they’re not compromising, they’re negotiating with themselves.If Biden can squeeze another trillion out of Manchin, it will be a huge win.Instead of crying in their beer (or is it whine?), the progressives should be pounding their chests about how much they’ve done for the middle class. Then maybe they can win a few more Senate (and House) seats and get some really good stuff done.AW
Neither party stands for everything I want. So I vote for the party that gives me more of the things I want than the other party.that’s reality.That is the definition of lesser of evils . . . regardless of what you prefer to call it.Most of the whining I am hearing on these boards is coming not from progressives (Heck there are only one or two even posting here), but from the de-coupled-to-reality corporate DEMS who whine endlessly about GQP treachery and evil. They just never do anything about it.
They just never do anything about it.I post on here a lot, what more do you want?
I post on here a lot, what more do you want?Why are you asking me? You and the corporate DEMs that dominate this board are barely even civil to me. None of them even bother to read my posts other than to find reasons to criticize and condescend. But my guess is that their advice to you would be, "Whine more!" Just don't ever entertain any possibility that Democrats are not perfect. . . or that they are failing to deliver to the the American people. Stay focused on corporate fund raising. Squash the progressives. Lie to them and call them naive even if they know more about our government and culture than you do. And make fun of Republicans. But never . . . absolutely never . . . take any action that might hurt a corporate donor.
I am not a DEM. You owe me an apology.
I am not a DEM. You owe me an apology.I am, but I am sorry to offend you.
Thank you. I'm not part of any party and never will be again unless someone starts an anti-Republican party.
Most of the whining I am hearing on these boards is coming not from progressives (Heck there are only one or two even posting here), but from the de-coupled-to-reality corporate DEMS who whine endlessly about GQP treachery and evil. They just never do anything about it.It's utterly maddening to have to keep repeating this, but clearly we do:THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE VOTES.You want results? Elect Democrats instead of whining that the ELECTABLE
Most of the whining I am hearing on these boards is coming not from progressives (Heck there are only one or two even posting here), but from the de-coupled-to-reality corporate DEMS who whine endlessly about GQP treachery and evil. They just never do anything about it.It's utterly maddening to have to keep repeating this, but clearly we do:THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE VOTES.You want results? Elect Democrats instead of whining that the ELECTABLE Democrats aren't good enough for you.SLL
"THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE VOTES."Yes, so what does that tell you?
"THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE VOTES."Yes, so what does that tell you? That Republicans are much better and more convincing liars and cheaters than Democrats.
THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T HAVE THE VOTES.Well . . . that's simply not true. We can all count. DEMOCRATS HAVE THE VOTES. Their problem is that DEMOCRATS CAN'T DELIVER THE VOTES. That's a huge difference. You can make whatever excuses you want for Democrats giving the GQP more power to block legislation than they have to. You can embrace your precious DEMs with any rationalizations you want. But I don't think voters are going to see your excuses as valid. What they will see is the DEMOCRATS FAIL TO PASS LEGISLATION . . . even when they are in the majority. Don't blame me for pointing this out. You can attack and discredit me on as many social media and discussion boards as you want. That won't change the fact that by failing to pass meaningful legislation, they will be faced with massive losses in the next election. We already see that Biden's approval is not going up, but down. Not passing meaningful, promised legislation is going to cost the DEMs whether you want to hear that or not . . . whether you attack posters who point it out or not. No amount of anger or frustration directed at me is going to change the DEM failure to pass meaningful legislation and the polls are showing this already. It's just a fact. It may be a fact corporate DEMs would rather deny than address, but it is simply a fact.Partly, the next DEM losses will be due to GQP treachery. The Republicans have been and will be very busy suppressing the vote. They don't seem to have a problem delivering the votes - even when they only have razor thin majorities or when they have to vote in lockstep to stop DEMs from passing legislation. Between gerrymandering, registered voter purges, and voter suppression efforts, the Republicans will eliminate some small but significant number of DEM voters from the next election. The other part of the DEMs coming shellacking in upcoming elections will be that they lied to their progressive base, pulled a bait and switch on them, and now are trying to get them to vote for them anyway. Again, don't blame me for simply pointing this out. Democrats are going to be defeated because corporate DEMs have become as corrupt as the GQP and they like the corporate money too much to work with each other to pass meaningful legislation . . . even if that legislation is needed to preserve the party.But we can all count. Democrats do have the votes. That's not their problem. They simply can't deliver the votes even if they are facing existential threats to the party's existence. Excuses that are clearly not true will not help the DEMs preserve the party.
Their problem is that DEMOCRATS CAN'T DELIVER THE VOTES.So what do they need to do in order to deliver the votes?
If I am feeling betrayed by a corrupt party I will not support it...If a party promises to do something, and does not I will not support it..I will continue to support Progressives only..If the Democrats betray voters on climate and real help for the American people they will loose millions of voters.. Are you telling me Nancy Pelosi's husband buying $2 million worth of Microsoft stock options 2 weeks before it was made public that Microsoft would be receiving a no bid government military contract for 22 billion is corrupt? Tesla also? how many other companies do they have insider info on government contracts on?Personally I don't think that's corruption, he just made some good trades and they're worth hundreds of millions of dollars now, its a great benefit when you've got connections... and the people in the club don't care about you or your views on climate and what's best for your kids, they care about themselves and their donors and rich friends... so as I said before you have to show the democratic establishment that you aren't a guaranteed vote.I will take republicans running the land for as long as it takes the establishment corporate dems and their wealthy donors to understand they need progressive votes to win elections and stay in power, then they will come to the table and compromise and might actually deliver
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