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Apparently, despite all the discussions about controlling emissions, we're in the midst of a renaissance of global coal production and consumption:

...US coal will keep declining in the future.

But that's not true globally. Far from it. According to data from BP's Statistical Review of Energy, coal consumption has actually been accelerating worldwide since the end of the 1990s.

It's tempting to think that this worldwide coal boom is mainly a one-time blip due to China, where coal use has surged since 2000 but has since leveled off as the country transitions away from heavy industry. But as it turns out, that's not true either.

The coal renaissance isn't just about China — it's global.

According to an important new study in The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, we're in the midst of a global "renaissance of coal" that's not confined to just a few countries like China or India. Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."


http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8908179/coal-global-climate-chan...

Albaby
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Here are some other graphs. You can see the Solids line start to take off around 2000.

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/glo_2011.html

- Pete
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Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."

The Balkans Are Giving Climate Change the Finger
www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-balkans-are-giving-climate-chan...
Coal may be increasingly persona non grata in eco-conscious Western Europe, but the continent’s southeast frontier is embarking on a little-noticed love affair with lignite. Abundant deposits of the black stuff, eager Chinese investors, the prospect of literally filthy lucre and a regional willingness to get all up in the face of climate change have fueled an epic Balkan expansion of coal-burning power stations — not to mention the mines that feed them. It’s an important parable for a world haunted by climate change: The distant prospect of global disaster can’t always trump a local hunger for jobs and exports.

While Balkan nations have always been coal-friendly — they’re sort of the West Virginia of Europe in that respect — new coal projects are “mushrooming,” says Ioana Ciuta, a coal campaigner at CEE Bankwatch, a European environmental watchdog.

DB2
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The Balkans Are Giving Climate Change the Finger... Coal may be increasingly persona non grata in eco-conscious Western Europe, but the continent’s southeast frontier is embarking on a little-noticed love affair with lignite.

Not only Western Europe but the rest of the world is also building coal-fired power plants and giving Climate Change the finger. Nothing special about the Balkans here because Global Warming is bunk.

Between 2011 and 2015 Germany will open 10.7 GW of new coal fired power stations. This is more new coal coal capacity than was constructed in the entire two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall. The expected annual electricity production of these power stations will far exceed that of existing solar panels and will be approximately the same as that of Germany's existing solar panels and wind turbines combined. Solar panels and wind turbines however have expected life spans of no more than 25 years. Coal power plants typically last 50 years or longer. At best you could call the recent developments in Germany's electricity sector contradictory. http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/328841/wh...

In the end, everybody is giving Climate Change the finger because it is the greatest fraud of all time. To add insult to injury, the frauds own the media so we are bombarded with this garbage 24/7.


-=Ajax=-
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Apparently, despite all the discussions about controlling emissions, we're in the midst of a renaissance of global coal production and consumption:

May be short-lived renaissance. Global coal demand growth has been slowing over the past couple of years and is not projected to improve. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-15/coal-deman...

Even Fox news says coal is dead. http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2015/04/11/coal-is-dead...

Ok, given Fox News' credibility that may be an argue for coal. But it is growing more questionable whether China can reach short-term economic growth targets. Dangerous to speculate too much, but what is happening in China today looks similar to the Japan bubble burst in 1989, when a supposedly superior state-directed capitalism ran head-first into the wall of economic reality. China's economic growth was partly due to trillions of dollars of unsustainable infrastructure spending. Combine that with an aging demographic and a government that could end economic reform at any moment in favor of social stability, and there is reason for concern.

If China's economy stalls, or even declines, a big chunk of global coal demand goes with it. Now throw in Grexit and the coal renaissance may hit a prolonged pause. As time goes on renewables will continue to grow more competitive.
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The notion of punishing those who pursue coal powered growth as well as assisting those who choose something (well pretty much ANYTHING) else has a lot of merit. With the big boys signed on the smaller states would be on the short end of trade interventions with teeth.

https://economics.stanford.edu/files/NordhausApril28.pdf

The big coal folks know this and will encourage the rapid building of plant (sinking of costs) ahead of any agreement that will remove their ability to do that.

Moving the planet towards a sane model of energy use and economics is one of the harder problems.
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Even Fox news says coal is dead. ... Ok, given Fox News' credibility that may be an argue for coal.

LOL! You're so eager to crucify Fox news that you dis your own source/link. LOL!

As time goes on renewables will continue to grow more competitive.

Yeah, sure, if you lump in enough subsidies.
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One of the references in the link in the original post is to the recently released BP Statistical Review of World Energy - 2015. This is a good source of information on energy consumption, and now includes information for 2014.

http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/pdf/Energy-economics/statis...

--------------------------------------------------------

The International Energy Agency (IEA) previously said that 2014 CO2 emissions were flat compared to 2013.

http://www.iea.org/newsroomandevents/news/2015/march/global-...

Based on the new BP Statistical Review, the IEA statement appears to be mostly true. World-wide consumption of oil, natural gas and coal were up in 2014, but only slightly. From page 43 of the BP pdf, the following amounts of fossil fuels were consumed in 2013 and 2014, in million tonnes of oil equivalent (MTOE).

----   Oil    NatGas  Coal
2013 4179.1 3052.8 3867.0
2014 4211.1 3065.5 3881.8


From these numbers, I figure CO2 emissions from these three sources were up about 0.6% in 2014 compared to 2013. The IEA says world-wide CO2 emissions were 32.3 billion tonnes in 2014. From the BP link, and using EIA emission factors, I figure 33.6 billion tonnes of CO2. Pretty close.

There is a lot of interesting information in the BP document to digest, but one item I thought was important. Page 35 of the pdf shows that China burned 50.6% of all coal consumed in 2014. Asia consumed 71.5% of all coal burned that year.

- Pete
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Asia consumed 71.5% of all coal burned that year.

- Pete

===============================

Asia has almost 2/3 of the world's population.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/262881/global-population-...
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The Balkans Are Giving Climate Change the Finger
Coal may be increasingly persona non grata in eco-conscious Western Europe, but the continent’s southeast frontier is embarking on a little-noticed love affair with lignite.


First Balkans private power plant boosts coal dependence
www.reuters.com/article/bosnia-energy-idUSL8N1BV3AA
The Balkan region's first privately-funded power plant came online on Tuesday, increasing the region's dependency on coal-fired power stations even as environmental concerns are driving them to the brink of the extinction elsewhere in Europe. The 300-megawatt plant, in the northern Bosnian town of Stanari, is a foreign investment in a chronically impoverished country that remains heavily dependent on foreign aid more than 20 years after it emerged from war....

Work on the investment, by Serbian-run but British-based Energy Financing Team (EFT), started in 2013. It was built by China's Dongfang Electric Corp and financed with the help of a 350 million euro ($391.13 million) loan from the China Development Bank....

Some 2,800 megawatts of extra coal-fired capacity is planned across the region in coming years at a total cost of 4.5 billion euros, most of it financed by China.

DB2
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Work on the investment, by Serbian-run but British-based Energy Financing Team (EFT), started in 2013. It was built by China's Dongfang Electric Corp and financed with the help of a 350 million euro ($391.13 million) loan from the China Development Bank

Bosnia's Banovici eyes deal with China's Dongfang
https://seenews.com/news/bosnias-banovici-eyes-deal-with-chi...
Bosnian state-controlled coal miner Banovici plans to sign a contract for the construction of a 350 MW thermal power plant (TPP) with China's Dongfang Electric Corporation at the Riga summit in November, the government of Bosnia's Muslim-Croat Federation has said.

Works on the project, which were planned to begin in the middle of 2016, have been delayed due to 14 contentious issues which surfaced in the negotiations between Banovici and the Chinese company, the Federation government said in a statement on Monday....

Latvia's capital Riga will host key events in cooperation between Central and Eastern European countries and China under the 16+1 format in November....

DB2
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Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."

Bangladesh thinks the best place to build a coal power plant is next to the world’s largest mangrove forest
http://qz.com/795363/bangladesh-is-building-the-rampal-coal-...
Rampal, a 1320MW coal power station, will be big enough to provide around 10% of the country’s electricity generation. It’s scheduled to be operational from 2020. The project is owned jointly by Bangladesh and India’s state-owned energy utilities, which each have 15% equity, while the remaining 70% of the total funding is expected to come from bank loans.

...the Indian government arranged financing through its state-owned EXIM Bank at an effective interest rate of 5.2%. That’s much lower than market rates in India.

DB2
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Greece set to win €1.75bn from EU climate scheme to build two coal plants
www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/03/greece-set-to-wi...
Greece appears on track to win access to a controversial EU programme that could earmark up to €1.75bn (£1.56bn) in free carbon allowances for the building of two massive coal-fired power plants....

The European parliament’s industry committee last month approved a rule change allowing Greece to join the scheme, the ‘10c derogation’ of the emissions trading system (ETS). Now, positive votes in the environment committee next month and at a plenary in February could set wheels in motion for the coal plants....

“You couldn’t make this up,” added Imke Lübbeke, WWF Europe’s head climate and energy policy. “The ETS was intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but it now risks being abused to facilitate investments in the new coal plants, which would operate well within the 2060s.

DB2
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Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."

Indonesia’s coal consumption remains high
www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/10/05/indonesias-coal-consu...
Despite a global shift toward more environmentally friendly energy sources, Indonesia’s coal consumption has increased significantly over recent years, partly triggered by a sharp drop in coal consumption in key coal markets, a British oil giant report has revealed.

The BP Statistical Review 2016 revealed on Wednesday that Indonesia’s coal consumption had doubled since 2010. Last year, coal became the country’s dominant source of fuel, accounting for 41 percent of total energy consumption....

The government has committed to an ambitious 35,000 megawatt electricity program, in which coal-fueled power plants will still make up the majority of electricity generation, at around 50 percent.

DB2
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."



On a list of unintended consequences the decline in coal use in the advanced economies has made the stuff really cheap compared to alternatives in the poorer countries trying to catch up.

Tim

https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/coal.cfm


http://www.worldstopexports.com/coal-exports-country/
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Indonesia’s coal consumption remains high
---------------------------------------

That may be true, but Indonesia's coal production is even higher. The article cites the BP Statistical Review.

http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/pdf/energy-economics/statis...

Indonesia's coal consumption-
2005:  24.4 MTOE
2015: 80.3

Indonesia's coal production-
2005:  93.9 MTOE
2015: 241.1

A similar trend is in Australia. Production is far higher than consumption. I would guess the exports go to China, India and Japan. Indonesia is the 4th largest producer of coal in Asia, as of 2015.

A graph showing Indonesia's electricity fuels.
http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/INDONESIA2.pdf

However, Indonesia's electricity consumption is only 1/5 the size of Japan, so the overall impact of their increased coal consumption is small. The impact of their coal exports are larger.

- Pete
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Chinese firms to invest $15bn in Pakistani coal-fired power
www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/05/chinese-firms-t...
Officials at the Pakistani water and power ministry have said Chinese companies are expected to spend around $15bn over the next 15 years to build close to a dozen coal-fired power plants of varying sizes around the country....

Combined, the projects will eventually generate 16,000 MW of electricity, which the government says is urgently needed. Coal power will, according to these projections, account for 75 per cent of the newly generated power, which the government says will be installed with the latest in pollution-minimizing equipment.

DB2
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Rather, coal is becoming the energy source of choice for a vast array of poorer and fast-growing countries around the world, particularly in Southeast Asia. "This renaissance of coal," the authors write, "has even accelerated in the last decade."
---
Chinese firms to invest $15bn in Pakistani coal-fired power


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/lamu-island-coal-...
According to data compiled by CoalSwarm, an industry watchdog, more than 100 coal-generating units with a combined capacity of 42.5 gigawatts are in various stages of planning or development in 11 African countries outside of South Africa—more than eight times the region’s existing coal capacity. Nearly all are fueled by foreign investment, and roughly half are being financed by the world’s largest coal emitter: China....

Africa’s embrace of coal is in part the result of its acute shortage of power. Although the continent’s economy has doubled in size since 2000, more than two thirds of residents south of the Sahara still live without electricity and most states lack the grid capacity to drive the expansion of job-creating industries....

Yet coal-fired plants, which generate 41 percent of the world’s electricity today, remain attractive because coal is relatively cheap and their operation isn’t subject to the whims of nature—unlike solar, wind, or hydro. In Kenya, for example, the country’s 800 megawatts of hydropower, one third of its total capacity, has become increasingly unreliable due to recurrent drought and is virtually inoperable at present, according to Richard Muiru, an advisor to Kenya’s Ministry of Energy and Petroleum. Although the country has extensive wind and geothermal resources, which it has started to exploit, these projects aren’t coming online fast enough, Muiru says, to keep up with Kenya’s projected demand.

DB2
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$7.5bn worth of coal-fired power plants planned for Vietnam
www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/05/7-5bn-worth-of-...
The Vietnamese government is set to approve investment licenses for three coal-fired power plants worth a combined $7.5bn. The country continues to rely on coal power and hydropower to securely meet the country’s annual electricity demand growth of 11%.

Two of the projects by Japanese, South Korean and Saudi Arabian investors are expected to receive licences ahead of Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc's visit to Japan next month, investment minister Nguyen Chi Dung told Reuters on Tuesday.

DB2
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Elsewhere in the developing world...

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/05/chinese-...

A Chinese company has been given the go-ahead to build a 300 MW coal-fired power plant in Pakistan.

Pakistan’s Private Power and Infrastructure Board (PPIB) this week issued a letter of interest to China Communications Construction Company (CCCC) for development of the project in the port city of Gwadar in Balochistan province.

Under the plan, CCCC would develop the $600m project using imported coal.

-----------------------------------------------

- Pete
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Apparently there are 1600 coal plants around the world under construction or planned. From the NY Times:

As Beijing Joins Climate Fight, Chinese Companies Build Coal Plants
www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-co...
When China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants this year, even as President Trump vowed to “bring back coal” in America, the contrast seemed to confirm Beijing’s new role as a leader in the fight against climate change. But new data on the world’s biggest developers of coal-fired power plants paints a very different picture: China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade. These Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin....

Over all, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally....In China...addition of domestic capacity, though large on paper, does not mean there will be growth in coal consumption. The current coal plants are operating far below capacity because demand for coal-generated power has slowed considerably.

But overseas, the Chinese are playing a different game. Shanghai Electric Group, one of the country’s largest electrical equipment makers, has announced plans to build coal power plants in Egypt, Pakistan and Iran with a total capacity of 6,285 megawatts — almost 10 times the 660 megawatts of coal power it has planned in China.

DB2
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Over all, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally

Japanese technology squeezes more power out of coal
http://asia.nikkei.com/Tech-Science/Tech/Japanese-technology...
Fresh technology developed in Japan may be about to swing the global energy pendulum back toward coal, by turning the old fossil fuel into a much cleaner energy source. With India and other emerging economies expected to increase their use of the still-abundant black rock, the new technology could help keep their carbon dioxide emissions in check....

While there already are coal-fired power generation plants boasting high efficiency, the demonstration plant, which Osaki CoolGen began operating at the end of March, far outpaces the competition. The plant "is 30% more efficient in power generation than the most advanced coal-fired power generation plant in Japan and reduces the generation of CO2 by 30%," Kenji Aiso, president of Osaki CoolGen, said....

For conventional coal-fired power generation, heat from coal burned at a temperature of around 700 C produces steam, which rotates a turbine. CoolGen's plant is totally different as it roasts coal at above 1,300 C while simultaneously blowing oxygen over it in order to convert the solid fuel into a gas. The system can drastically cut the discharge of CO2 because it uses gas from the roasted coal to generate power instead of burning the rock.

DB2
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The plant "is 30% more efficient in power generation than the most advanced coal-fired power generation plant in Japan and reduces the generation of CO2 by 30%," Kenji Aiso, president of Osaki CoolGen, said....
-------------------------------------------

I don't know what Japan's most efficient coal-fired plant is, but I believe the previous record for coal thermal efficiency is the RDK8 plant in Germany, with an efficiency of 47.5%.

https://www.gepower.com/steam/customer-outcomes/rdk8.html

This is a heat rate of 7183 BTU/kwh. If it takes 30% fewer BTUs to make a kwh in the Japanese plant, then it will have a heat rate of 7183 x 0.7 = 5028 BTU/kwh.

Coal still produces 95 kg of CO2 per million BTU, so...
(5028 BTU/kwh) x (95 kgCO2/1E6 BTU) = 0.4777 kgCO2/kwh, or 478 grams of CO2/kwh.

This is still worse than an efficient CCGT natural gas burning power plant, and significantly worse than if Japan would restart its nuclear power plants.

- Pete
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From Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-safrica-eskom-idUSKBN19R13...
South Africa's state power utility Eskom signed a $1.5 billion (19.6 billion rand) loan agreement with China Development Bank on Thursday to partly finance its Medupi coal power plant, its acting chief executive said on Thursday.

The loan is the second tranche of a $5 billion funding facility Eskom is seeking, after signing a $500 million credit facility with China Development Bank in 2016.

"This loan will also aid us in ensuring that we complete the Medupi project and ensure security of energy supply," Eskom's acting CEO Johnny Dladla told reporters.


About the Medupi plant:
Once completed, Medupi is expected to be the largest dry-cooled coal-fired power station in the world and will add 4,800 megawatts to the grid.
----------------------------------------------

Dry cooling is going to hurt efficiency. Being generous, it could have a 45% thermal efficiency. At an 85% capacity factor, a 4800 MW coal plant will produce 25.7 million tonnes of CO2 per year (720 grams of CO2 per kwh).

- Pete
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www.reuters.com/article/us-coal-prices-analysis-idUSKBN1A91I...
Asia's benchmark physical coal prices GCLNWCPFBMc1 have gained more than a third from lows seen in May to nearly $98 per ton, while European benchmark API2 2018 coal futures are at eight-month highs of around $74 a ton. Recent gains are largely due to high demand in China, where power consumption has jumped more than 6 percent since the beginning of the year....

China plans to add 200 million tonnes of new coal mining capacity this year, in addition to the 90 million tonnes already added in the first half of this year. In January, the National Development and Reforms Commission said it wanted Chinese coal prices to trade in a range of 500-570 yuan a ton, and would take action if they were outside this.

"With prices now trading above the range, there are growing expectations that the government will take steps to increase domestic supply," analysts at ING Research wrote. At higher price levels, many miners are making money and there is a good chance that new supply will come to the market....

DB2
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www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-modernization-has-paid-of...
Coal industry profits in China are expected to remain high in the second half of the year, thanks to government efforts to cut excessive capacity....

China last Monday reported a faster-than-expected GDP growth of 6.9 percent in the first half of the year. Thermal coal and electricity consumption rose by 8.2% and 6.3 percent respectively in the first six months year-on-year, the largest increase in recent years....

Effective coal capacity in 2017 will be increased by around 200 million tons
year-on-year, ensuring the supply of coal and electricity, according to a meeting held by the NDRC on Monday.

DB2
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Effective coal capacity in 2017 will be increased by around 200 million tons year-on-year

Just out of curiosity, do you consider this good or bad news?
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>>Effective coal capacity in 2017 will be increased by around 200 million tons year-on-year<<

Just out of curiosity, do you consider this good or bad news? - btresist


-------------------

Not really enough information to answer but to stir debate, here goes.

In the abstract, it is not good news.

But I would sa yes, it is good news, if the only solution the warmists have is to offset China's increase by wrecking the western economies.

Flame on!
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But I would sa yes, it is good news, if the only solution the warmists have is to offset China's increase by wrecking the western economies.

That of course is nonsense since China's economy is still export dependent. Wrecking western economies means wrecking the Chinese economy. In any case, I know where you stand on the issue. You are a classic climate denier whose opinion is based far more on ideology than science. You see, a true skeptic would recognize that while he/she is not convinced of the magnitude of climate change, there is a possibility that it could be a very bad thing. Therefore, an increase in coal use would not be good news.

I find it odd that Dr. Bob seems to be gloating about coal use in China, the Balkans, the Netherlands, etc. It is like being happy about the world releasing more potential carcinogens. Even if one thinks the problem is exaggerated, why root for what could be a bad thing?
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I find it odd that Dr. Bob seems to be gloating about coal use in China, the Balkans, the Netherlands, etc. It is like being happy about the world releasing more potential carcinogens. Even if one thinks the problem is exaggerated, why root for what could be a bad thing?

=============================

DB2 probably smokes cigars, drinks bourbon and burns coal in his furnace. I think he does not believe in carcinogens from coal.
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I find it odd that Dr. Bob seems to be gloating about coal use in China, the Balkans, the Netherlands, etc. It is like being happy about the world releasing more potential carcinogens. Even if one thinks the problem is exaggerated, why root for what could be a bad thing?
-------------------------------------------------------

I am not going to speak for DrBob, but I have posted similar articles in the past. There are a few reasons for me doing so.

Firstly, it needs to be recognized that despite all of the happy talk about the Paris Agreement, and other initiatives, nations are still going to do what is in their own self interest. This means keeping their economies humming along as best they can. If that means burning more coal, or building more coal-fired power plants, then that is what they are going to do. Short term GDP is more important than any longer term environmental impact. Too many people think that the proclamations of "reducing carbon emissions X% by Y date" means the people making the proclamation are actually serious about making it happen. Oftentimes, from what I see, those are just words, so everyone can be all smiles in the IPCC conference group photo, or whatever.

Secondly, it is often good to give people some idea of the scope of the whole issue. 36 billion tonnes of CO2 going into the atmosphere every year didn't just suddenly happen. Trying to reduce those emissions by some significant amount is going to be more difficult than most people think. It is not some complicated differential equation involving quantum physics. It really all comes down to simple math. But few people actually do the math.

Finally, and maybe it is just my own cynical nature, but I like to point out just how ineffective past efforts have been. This is why I posted about the very significant CO2 emissions that have occurred since Al Gore told us how to save the world in 2006. Well, after all of the Academy Awards and Nobel Peace Prizes, the atmospheric CO2 concentration just keeps going up. From what I can see, the answer to this is to double down with even more of the past (ineffective) efforts. What have those past efforts gotten us, except 409 ppm CO2?

- Pete
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Well, after all of the Academy Awards and Nobel Peace Prizes, the atmospheric CO2 concentration just keeps going up. From what I can see, the answer to this is to double down with even more of the past (ineffective) efforts. What have those past efforts gotten us, except 409 ppm CO2?


If you look at the history since Kyoto with some discrimination you can see that:

1) Clinton helped negotiate Kyoto but couldn't get it passed in the US because fossil fuel-owned Senators and Representatives in both parties wouldn't go along.

2) We "elected" Bush in 2000 - a fossil fuel man himself who spent 8 years doing everything he could to boost fossil fuel production and obstruct any progress to regulate heat-trapping gases.

3) 2008 we elected Obama and a Democrat Congress who mostly were on board with regulating heat-trapping gases, but the legislative effort collapsed in the Senate in 2010 when the Tea Party revolution drove the few Republicans who were on-board running for their political lives and the fossil-fuel state Democrats also obstructed. Still we had 8 years of Obama driving policy from the Executive branch and we made significant progress on cutting our emissions.

4) 2016 we "elected" Trump and a Republican Congress who are resolutely pro-fossil fuels.

So ... yes, we've doubled down on what we've done in the past, but unfortunately we doubled down on the party that OBSTRUCTS progress on the issue. As a world-leading country with the largest economy and the largest historical contribution to the climate change problem, the US must lead the way if we expect other countries to come along. That happened when Obama led us forward, securing not only reductions in our own emissions, but also secured agreement from India and China for the first time that they must address the problem as well.

Now we can expect that progress to fall apart as Trump and the Republican Congress do everything they can to reverse progress in the US and sabotage progress on the international front.

Put the blame for lack of progress where it is due: not on our sincere efforts to address the problem, but on OBSTRUCTION of progress by politicians in the pocket of the wealthiest industry on Earth.
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There are a few reasons for me doing so.

It is all about context. Your position on coal is pretty clear. You are against the use of coal and favor replacing it with nuclear power. And so you bring up coal consumption data to make the argument for why nuclear must be added to the non-fossil fuel energy mix. That is a rational position.

I am just curious about Dr. Bob's rationale. He obviously spends a great deal of time researching and posting about energy, with a decided bias favoring fossil fuels. Don't understand why. Even putting climate change aside, the use of fossil fuels has indisputable negative effects on human health and the environment. Black lung disease is real, as is smog, particulate aerosols, acid rain, etc. The world is far better off if it can find alternatives to dirty fuels like coal.

We may need fossil fuels, but we shouldn't be happy about its increased use.
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Put the blame for lack of progress where it is due: not on our sincere efforts to address the problem, but on OBSTRUCTION of progress by politicians in the pocket of the wealthiest industry on Earth. - BenSolar

---------------

Lets not give all the credit to the politicians.

The millions and millions of regular folks mostly in flyover country also helped to obstruct the elites initiative to consolidate even more power into Washington.

And what you are missing is that the resistance by Joe Six Pack has nothing to do with being in the pockets of the wealthy. It was not the wealthy who forced me to use an inferior curly light bulb. It was busy body progressives who decided.

I couldn't be provided a choice because I might make the wrong, meaning "non-progressive" choice. The bureaucrat setting the carbon tax on every form and kind of carbon emitter would have that sort of control over damn near everything we use or consume. It's a freedom thing, not a wealth thing.
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millions and millions of regular folks mostly in flyover country

The majority of the owned population of the USA.

It's a freedom thing, not a wealth thing.

Its a survival thing.

You don't like being told what to do. If some progressive tells you to get out of the path of an oncoming train you will happily stand right there and berate that damned progressive unt-[[whump]]

And what you are missing is that the resistance by Joe Six Pack has nothing to do with being in the pockets of the wealthy.

Not them, their news sources, which are owned by the people who don't want them to know the advantages or the reasons why they should use a "curly light bulb". I've had a few of those. Not bad at producing light and lasting a long time. You'd probably have had to put up with inferior US products.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing, especially without regulation, if you happen to be on the winning side.
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1) Clinton helped negotiate Kyoto but couldn't get it passed...
2) We "elected" Bush in 2000...
3) ...the Tea Party revolution drove the few Republicans who were on-board running for their political lives and the fossil-fuel state Democrats also obstructed.
4) 2016 we "elected" Trump...

---------------------------------------

Germany is not ruled by Trump or the Bushes. Germans are not told what to do by the Koch Brothers, or the Tea Party. Germany has the most progressive and sustainable energy policy in the world. Germany is held up as the example other nations need to replicate. Everyone wants to be like Germany.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2015/11/germany-r...

From NatGeo:
Germany is pioneering an epochal transformation it calls the energiewende—an energy revolution that scientists say all nations must one day complete if a climate disaster is to be averted. Among large industrial nations, Germany is a leader.

France, on the other hand, evidently has an embarrassingly bad energy policy. Nobody wants to be like France. France doesn't even want to be like France. France wants to be more like Germany.

In 2016, Germany emitted 560 grams of CO2 per kwh of electricity generated.
Today in France, it looks to be around 35 grams/kwh.
http://www.rte-france.com/en/eco2mix/eco2mix-co2-en

The latest country to emulate Germany: South Korea
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/20...

- Pete
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1) Clinton helped negotiate Kyoto but couldn't get it passed...
2) We "elected" Bush in 2000...
3) ...the Tea Party revolution drove the few Republicans who were on-board running for their political lives and the fossil-fuel state Democrats also obstructed.
4) 2016 we "elected" Trump...
---------------------------------------

Germany is not ruled by Trump or the Bushes. Germans are not told what to do by the Koch Brothers, or the Tea Party. Germany has the most progressive and sustainable energy policy in the world. Germany is held up as the example other nations need to replicate. Everyone wants to be like Germany.

In 2016, Germany emitted 560 grams of CO2 per kwh of electricity generated.

Today in France, it looks to be around 35 grams/kwh.

The latest country to emulate Germany: South Korea

- Pete

=================================================

Why do so many countries want to emulate Germany? Because it is logical. Old nukes will need to be shutdown due to age, costly maintenance and lack of many new safety features. New nukes are too expensive and take too long to build compared to renewables and CCGTs.

jaagu
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jaagu:"Why do so many countries want to emulate Germany? Because it is logical. Old nukes will need to be shutdown due to age, costly maintenance and lack of many new safety features"

Heck, Germany's energy policy is a gigantic mess

1) They are burning megatons of coal since all their solar cells don't work too well at night. Duh!

2) They are in a place that occasionally gets 2 or 3 day storms or quiet periods where the majority of wind farms are off line, or at very reduced output.

3) They pay 25c/KWH, one of the highest rates around other than islands like HI.

4) They are substituting natural gas for zero emission nukes. And all that natural gas comes from former enemies and likely future enemies - Russia, Ukraine, the 'stans' , etc. Subject to being cut off at any difference in politics. Suicide.

5) Germans typically pay 49% of their paychecks to the government for income taxes and 'social taxes' (pensions). On what they have left, they pay 22% VAT on anything they buy - less on food and medicine.

No thanks.

I'll take the US policy. Diversified energy production. Wind, solar, nuclear, natural gas, coal, biofuels. Oil imports from mostly friendly countries. Enough NG production for our own needs.


t
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Heck, Germany's energy policy is a gigantic mess

3) They pay 25c/KWH, one of the highest rates around other than islands like HI.

------------------------------------------

For households (residential), it is more like 30 euro-cents per kwh. This converts to 35 US cents/kwh. Only Denmark is higher in Europe. Denmark has also invested heavily into wind farms.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

Hawaii is actually slightly less expensive. Average US residential rate is 12.7 cents/kwh.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

- Pete
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1) They are burning megatons of coal since all their solar cells don't work too well at night.

2) They are in a place that occasionally gets 2 or 3 day storms or quiet periods where the majority of wind farms are off line, or at very reduced output.

3) They pay 25c/KWH, one of the highest rates around other than islands like HI.

4) They are substituting natural gas for zero emission nukes. And all that natural gas comes from former enemies and likely future enemies - Russia, Ukraine, the 'stans' , etc. Subject to being cut off at any difference in politics. Suicide.

5) Germans typically pay 49% of their paychecks to the government for income taxes and 'social taxes' (pensions).

===========================================

1. No - They are not burning any more coal than the last five years
2. No - The storms have negligible effect on overall wind power generation
3. Yes - They are happy to pay more for clean electricity without nuclear worries
4. Yes - They use relatively little natural gas, but will use more as more coal plants are shutdown - Europe is an interesting place Russia sells gas and oil to EU which makes Russia dependent on EU for their economy - Russia buys EU machines and other goods that they do not manufacture.
5. NA - Income taxes and social taxes have nothing to do with power generation

jaagu
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Germany coal usage

dated 2016

http://energypost.eu/german-conundrum-renewables-break-recor...

"This undisputed success was, however, muted by the fact that production from lignite and bituminous coal hardly declined (a decrease of a mere half-percent or 1.4 TWh). This is a problem since the German plan to battle climate change includes renewables replacing dirty coal-fuelled sources, thus lowering greenhouse gas emissions.

With coal-fuelled power plants still resisting retirement, greenhouse gas emissions in Germany actually grew last year; when the cooler weather is taken into account they stagnated at best (see chart 2). Germany is now on a trajectory to miss its climate targets by a wide margin. In view of the financial and political capital which has gone into the energy transition, the so-called Energiewende, this is bad news for German politicians."



- - --

t.
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"Many of France’s nuclear units are down for inspection. As a result, coal and natural gas generation has more than doubled. Last month, generation from fossil fuels was the highest in 32 years in France and nuclear generation was the lowest since 1998. As a result, French month-ahead power prices escalated to near the highest levels since 2009."

- ---

"In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.[iii]

Germany has over 20 gigawatts of lignite-fired electric generating capacity operating as of the beginning of 2015,[iv] generating about 25 percent of its electricity last year.[v] Lignite, also called brown coal, has the highest carbon dioxide emissions per ton when burned–a third more than hard coal and three times as much as natural gas.[vi] It is Europe’s most abundant and least-expensive domestic fuel, especially when located close to power plants. Germany also uses hard coal, which generated about 18 percent of its electricity.[vii]

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/france-german...


You were saying about Germany?????


t.
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"In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.

=============================================

So what, they also closed old coal fired plants and their new coal fired plants generate more electricity per ton of coal than their old plants. So the net effect is - they are not burning any more coal than the last five years!

jaagu
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I find it odd that Dr. Bob seems to be gloating about coal use in China, the Balkans, the Netherlands, etc.

I find it odd the bt sees posting news items as 'gloating'. It is, rather, an attempt to keep a more realistic view of what is happening in the world. Similarly, I might post about the low penetration of EVs as a grain of salt to the 'EVs have reached a tipping point' sort of posts.

As can be seen by looking at almost any month over the last ten years, my posts cover a wide variety of subjects: battery technology, precipitation changes, climate models, temperature trends, power developments, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

DB2
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I find it odd the bt sees posting news items as 'gloating'.

Again, it is all about context, in this case the sum total of all your posts. I suspect most here see a large bias in your "news" reporting that greatly favors fossil fuel use. In any case you avoided the question.

Are the examples of increased coal usage you have linked good or bad?
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It's a freedom thing, not a wealth thing.

That is a compelling argument if those who make the wrong choices are held fully responsible for the consequences. Unfortunately coal burning plants don't pay the costs of dirty air and contaminated water. Tax payers do in the form of higher health and water treatment costs. People who buy gas-guzzlers aren't held accountable for the damage they produce, whether it be health, environmental, or the resources used to defend Saudi and Kuwaiti oil wells.

You want freedom then you need to accept accountability. Fossil fuel companies and users should be made to pay their fair share of the costs to clean up the air, water, and land they polluted and the people they have made sick.

Freedom without accountability is freeloading, and that is what fossil fuel producers and users have been doing for generations. That being the case, society has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce these costs.
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Are the examples of increased coal usage you have linked good or bad?

Both, of course. The real world is generally not Manichean.

DB2
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Fossil fuel companies and users should be made to pay their fair share of the costs to clean up the air, water, and land they polluted and the people they have made sick.

There are no costs associated with fossil fuels unless you believe there is a boogeyman and a unicorn under your bed.


society has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce these costs.

What costs and where is the damage? How do you calculate these costs?


I hate to tell you this but there is no boogeyman under your bed. Grow up.


-=Ajax=-
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Pragmatic posts are seen as schilling for the man. If you write that not all warming is bad, that it is currently unknown exactly what impact the greenhouse effect will have in the short or long term considering the millions of other factors that cool and warm the planet, that thermodynamic laws apply to the earth...

Well you hate the earth and people who argue with you are much better humans.
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Both, of course. The real world is generally not Manichean.

The real world still has to make choices. That's why people do cost/benefit and risk analyses to project the net costs or benefits of different choices. It is how rational people make rational decisions. You should by now have come to some opinions about the net costs/benefits of fossil fuel versus renewable energies versus nuclear, the potential risks of climate change, and the known costs on health and the environment of various energy sources.

It is pretty clear where most everyone else on this board stands on these issues. So what about you?

In your opinion, should the world try to reduce coal consumption?
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>>society has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce these costs.<<<

What costs and where is the damage? How do you calculate these costs? - Ajax


----------------

How to calculate is simple. First you get a commission established comprised of globalist, central planned economy progressive elitists. Then they give a ton of grant money to scientists to make the necessary estimates. These results are then refined by weeding out new grant money for errant scientists whose results are clearly outside the mainstream.

The conclusion is beyond dispute since it was produced by scientists. And guess what, these hidden costs, now exposed by experts, are just high enough to make renewables the cheapest alternative out there. Saving both Gaia and taxpayer money at the same time, who could oppose that.
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It is pretty clear where most everyone else on this board stands on these issues. So what about you?

I get asked and have written about my positions every year or two for the last ten. However, the board has a short memory. On this issue I'm in favor of world development. By the middle and end of the century the world will be a much wealthier place and better able to adapt. Thus, the Vietnamese and Kenyans are not evil or bad for building coal plants.

DB2
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There are no costs associated with fossil fuels unless you believe there is a boogeyman and a unicorn under your bed.

Fox News and the state of North Carolina apparently believe your boogeyman and unicorn actually did exist in the Dan River.

North Carolina officials said Tuesday that groundwater containing unsafe levels of arsenic apparently leaching from a Duke Energy coal ash dump is still pouring into the Dan River, which is already contaminated from a massive Feb. 2 spill. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/19/video-shows-toxic-waste...

Fox News reported another sighting of your boogeyman and unicorn in West Virginia.

The chemical spill that contaminated water for hundreds of thousands in West Virginia was only the latest and most high-profile case of coal sullying the nation's waters. For decades, chemicals and waste from the coal industry have tainted hundreds of waterways and groundwater supplies, spoiling private wells, shutting down fishing and rendering streams virtually lifeless, according to an Associated Press analysis of federal environmental data. But because these contaminants are released gradually and in some cases not tracked or regulated, they attract much less attention than a massive spill such as the recent one in West Virginia. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/01/20/west-virginia-spill...

And who pays for the cleanups? According to Fox News, based on the example of North Carolina it is me and you and anyone else who pays an electric bill.

The nation's largest electric company wants regulators in North Carolina to force consumers to pay nearly $200 million a year to clean up the toxic byproducts of burning coal to generate power. That doesn't sit well with neighbors of the power plants who have been living on bottled water since toxic chemicals appeared in some of their wells. "They want to pass their mistakes on to the land owner. This is not fair," wrote Nancy Gurley, who lives near the utility's plant in Goldsboro. http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/07/12/coal-ash-neigh...
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On this issue I'm in favor of world development.

I favor world development too. But let's be clear on this. You favor world development through fossil fuels because it is cheaper in the short-term over cleaner alternatives that may be better in the long-term.

Thus, the Vietnamese and Kenyans are not evil or bad for building coal plants.

I never said they were. I feel it is unfortunate that they feel the need to build coal plants over cleaner alternatives. Every industrial nation in history had a mess to clean up after large scale coal use. Kenya in particular has a need for clean drinking water and arable land, both of which are compromised by coal plants.
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The word "but" is in virtually always employed as a universal negator:

"I'd love to go out with you tonight, Henry, but I've got to wash my hair tonight."

Both Republicans and Democrats want cooperation between the political parties, but ...

I favor world development too. But ...
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First you get a commission established comprised of globalist, central planned economy progressive elitists. Then they give a ton of grant money to scientists to make the necessary estimates.

================================

Very ignorant!
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btresist wrote: "You want freedom then you need to accept accountability. Fossil fuel companies and users should be made to pay their fair share of the costs to clean up the air, water, and land they polluted and the people they have made sick.

Freedom without accountability is freeloading, and that is what fossil fuel producers and users have been doing for generations. That being the case, society has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce these costs."


Hear, hear!
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Very ignorant!

Says the man with Ram 2500 diesel pickup and three (3) cars.

What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say.
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First you get a commission established comprised of globalist, central planned economy progressive elitists. Then they give a ton of grant money to scientists to make the necessary estimates.

================================

Very ignorant! - jaagu


---------------

I know. The elitists tell me that all the time. After all they are so smart that they understand science and geology and statistics and stuff. They can predict hundreds of years into the future with virtual certainty.

In many walks of life, the elitists tell us how to live because they get it, they understand things the proletariat is just not capable of grasping. The world would be a better place if we would just do what they say because being humble hayseeds we cannot appreciate the magnificence of their wisdom. Putting them in charge is for our own good because they told me it was.
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There are no costs associated with fossil fuels unless you believe there is a boogeyman and a unicorn under your bed.

Fox News and the state of North Carolina apparently believe your boogeyman and unicorn actually did exist in the Dan River. North Carolina officials said Tuesday that groundwater containing unsafe levels of arsenic apparently leaching from a Duke Energy coal ash dump...

This is BS. Duke Energy is violating an EPA pollution regulation and that is proof for you that there is a boogeyman under your bed? Did it occur to you to just enforce our laws?

Grow up!


-=Ajax=-
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The word "but" is in virtually always employed as a universal negator:

More accurate would be a nuanced negator. As in "Dumping coal ash into the river means cheaper energy in the short term, but higher health care costs in the long term".

There is short-sighted economic development promoted by you and Dr. Bob that results in more harm than good and there is the sustainable development promoted by those with a more rational and scientific point-of-view.
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In many walks of life, the elitists tell us how to live because they get it, they understand things the proletariat is just not capable of grasping. The world would be a better place if we would just do what they say because being humble hayseeds we cannot appreciate the magnificence of their wisdom. Putting them in charge is for our own good because they told me it was.

I'm betting that the next time you need medical care, legal help, or tax assistance you won't go to your neighborhood "hayseed" for help. I'm guessing you'll find some "elitist" with an advanced academic degree and lots of experience who uses fancy words and good grammar.
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By the middle and end of the century the world will be a much wealthier place and better able to adapt. Thus, the Vietnamese and Kenyans are not evil or bad for building coal plants.

No... we don't regard them as evil or bad. Wrong and shortsighted perhaps. Evil and bad are reserved for people who have the power to give them other choices and refuse to do so.

You do not perceive there to be any risk to the Vietnamese and Kenyans from climate change because why?

Do you really think that the world can sustain the growth of fossil fuel usage until the middle of the century and wind up wealthier? This in the face of the changes happening to climate and the scientifically expected results to agriculture?

The "invisible hand" of Capitalism holds a bludgeon and feels none of the pain it inflicts on others in this process. That pain is largely still in the future but it is drawing nearer and some of it is already unavoidable.

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL8N1K51JH

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/world/asia/north-korea-dr...

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/arctic-doomsday-seed-vault-flo...

https://foodtank.com/news/2017/06/sri-lanka-worst-flood-in-d...

...as it gets worse they we get deeper and deeper into a CO2 problem that cannot be resolved by emitting more CO2 and has no foreseeable resolution this side of the year 3100. Your answer is to try to make everyone wealthier but what form of reasoning ignores the risks?

I think of you as an optimist but you are not really that. Even optimists acknowledge risks.

That is something I have never ever seen you do.
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I know. The elitists tell me that all the time. After all they are so smart that they understand science and geology and statistics and stuff. They can predict hundreds of years into the future with virtual certainty.

In many walks of life, the elitists tell us how to live because they get it, they understand things the proletariat is just not capable of grasping. The world would be a better place if we would just do what they say because being humble hayseeds we cannot appreciate the magnificence of their wisdom. Putting them in charge is for our own good because they told me it was.



http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/04/the-hubris-of-ignorance.h...

What he said.
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I'm betting that the next time you need medical care, legal help, or tax assistance you won't go to your neighborhood "hayseed" for help. I'm guessing you'll find some "elitist" with an advanced academic degree and lots of experience who uses fancy words and good grammar. - btresist

------------------

No doubt that I probably would seek out an expert. But the big difference is that I have a choice of who and when. And if I am not satisfied I am free to use someone else next time. As opposed to having a decision forced on me by progressives wielding the heavy hand of government and no ability to shop round if I don't like the outcome.
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the big difference is that I have a choice of who and when

That's a reality problem, not a freedom problem. There are two pieces of reality being ignored.

First: is that it is WE the people. The government is supposed to be the collective will of all the people as expressed through elected representatives. So we act as a group on some issues and make decisions that we expect everyone to adhere to. That'd be part of the "rule of law". We are much stronger collectively than we are individually so there is a lot of value in us managing our affairs this way. You get your "choice" in terms of your vote. The fact that Republicans have gamed the system to the point where a minority government rules the nation should make you a lot more suspicious of them than of the "elite" Democrats (who are just as corrupt but less efficient at it).

So you had your choice of who.

Second: We live in the now and our government has to make decisions continuously that you have absolutely no knowledge of, even that they are being made. It has to be here all the time. We can't wait for you to be asked, that is why we HAVE representatives rather than direct democracy.

So what it is you seem to want? That's about as realistic as wanting to fly to the moon by flapping your arms. You as an individual can decide things for you as an individual, like what MD to go to and when to go.

You don't get to decide what government we have any more than any other person in the nation and you don't get to decide that you want government now but not then. Typical of your ideology, you are ignorant of its MANY limitations.

One of the principle limitations is that even more than any other democratic form (and all of them suffer from this). Libertarians cannot permit self-deception and their philosophy cannot survive ignorance... both of which you currently embrace.
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As opposed to having a decision forced on me by progressives wielding the heavy hand of government and no ability to shop round if I don't like the outcome.

Can you provide an example of progressives limiting your choice? I'm sure you can so would appreciate your doing so as it is easier to address specifics rather than generalities. I can think of many instances of conservatives wielding the heavy hand of government to restrict freedom, such as anti-abortion laws, the defense of marriage act, a whole slew of anti-gay legislation, laws against marijuana use, etc.
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bt:"First: is that it is WE the people. The government is supposed to be the collective will of all the people as expressed through elected representatives. So we act as a group on some issues and make decisions that we expect everyone to adhere to."

Actually, NO. we live in a Constitutional Republic. It is not the 'collective will' of all the people. Otherwise, we'd have the tryanny of the majority. don't like illegals? Line them up and shoot them if you see them coming across the border. Export all the folks who 'don't like living here - love it or leave it. Etc.

Everyone's rights are protected by the COnstitution.

It is in no way a 'democracy'. In fact, it was set up for the STATES to run the federal government. the STATES would select the Senators.

And the 'interests' of all groups in the country are represented by the Senate - only two votes per state no matter how big or small or how many people. Farmers, city dwellers, etc.

- - -----


BT:" We are much stronger collectively than we are individually so there is a lot of value in us managing our affairs this way. You get your "choice" in terms of your vote. The fact that Republicans have gamed the system to the point where a minority government rules the nation should make you a lot more suspicious of them than of the "elite" Democrats (who are just as corrupt but less efficient at it)."

Politics....please take your party whines to PA

And, we are not the 'commie collective' managed by NANNY STATE BIG GOVERNMENT.

I'm sure the dems in CHicago, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc, all have fantastic machines going where they haven't lost a vote in 70 years.

- - ------

BT:"Second: We live in the now and our government has to make decisions continuously that you have absolutely no knowledge of, even that they are being made. It has to be here all the time. We can't wait for you to be asked, that is why we HAVE representatives rather than direct democracy."

Absolutely. Unfortunately, most of them offload any responsibilities to 'committees' and appointed groups and panels, so the Congress folks never have to 'take a position' or even vote. Set up some 'regulatory' agency, give them full power to issue a million pages of regulations, and Congress never had to 'take a position'.....other than 'it's all for the benefit of the children'......

- -----

BTW, the vast MAJORITY of US folks have near zero interest in global warming, or paying for it. It's like number 10 or 15 on the top priority list.

If I follow your statements, our congress folks would have NO incentive to do anything because, well, most people could care less - other than the scare folks and the poor polar bears......


t.
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It is in no way a 'democracy'

It isn't any more. You've seen to that part.

It was set up as a representative democracy and you surely do understand that the Constitution's limitations on the will of the majority still embrace the judgement of the will of the people. Except it isn't the "will of the people" that is being enforced here. You and your fellow-travellers are a minority intentionally demolishing the "United" in "United States of America". You are in effect, re-litigating the civil-war.

Which was, among other things, about the rights of States to oppress certain citizens in violation of their own Constitutional rights. That is in fact what you are attempting to return to, and in my view you are welcome to the hell you are about to create. Perhaps you need to live in it for a while to understand just how stupid it is and how much weaker it makes the nation. There won't be a nation left when you are finished.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/06/repub...

Politics are not forbidden here T, Politics were not brought into the science by the left, the left only looked at the science and recognized that change had to happen. The right looked at the science and recognized that if the science was accepted change WOULD happen and that anything the left wanted had to be evil.

The result is that we have political rather than scientific discussion from every denialist on this board. You can't argue the science, you simply complain about the "nanny state" and commies.

The science doesn't care what you think about government.

The majority in the US do care about warming. You need to check your facts.

http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/yco...

But who actually gets heard?? THESE guys...

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/2543396-155/bagley-cartoon-rep...

That's your version of "democracy". We're oppressing them by telling the truth about the science
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DB2 probably smokes cigars, drinks bourbon...

I'd recommend Basil Hayden....although my drug of choice is listening to music on a high-end audio system.

DB2
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The elitists tell me that all the time. After all they are so smart that they understand science and geology and statistics and stuff. They can predict hundreds of years into the future with virtual certainty.

==============================

Are the Chinese elitists, are the Japanese elitists, are the Russians elitists, are the Indians elitists? NO

They and the rest of the world believes in science and climate science.

Only the ignorant in USA (and some outside the USA) do NOT believe in science and climate science.

The fossil fuels companies and their minions make up phony stories about scientists, elitists, and globalists. The fossil fuels companies fund these minions who generate and promote the lies and phony stories. Then the ignorant believe the lies and phony stories like a religion. The ignorant also voted for Trump. What more do I need to say!

jaagu
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> I know. The elitists tell me that all the time. After all they are so smart that they understand science and geology and statistics and stuff. They can predict hundreds of years into the future with virtual certainty.

There are somethings we can see are going to happen and some things we cannot.

If you were in a car driving up a road and up ahead there was a wall. You could say that with virtual certainty that unless the car slowed down or turned than there would be a crash. It could turn out that just before the wall is a bunch of sand that will safely stop the car, but without evidence for it, pretending it exists sounds more like a religion than science.

The science is both complex and not perfect, but it is the best we have. Your denial of it because you don't understand it is understandable. Your repeated and forceful denial after you have been shown the science suggests you ... I don't know how to finish this thought without it sounding like a personal attack. I will suggest that you should start to show some maturity.

Mark
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bhm: "As opposed to having a decision forced on me by progressives wielding the heavy hand of government and no ability to shop round if I don't like the outcome."

The problem is that denialists on this baord are rejecting science just because they do not like the outcome. Totally rejecting the findings of climate scientists just because you don't like the outcome makes as much sense as rejecting evolution just because you don't like the outcome. It is totally irrational.
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Coal prices to fire up as heating season approaches
www.hellenicshippingnews.com/coal-prices-to-fire-up-as-heati...
Coal prices in China may continue to rise during the upcoming heating season, despite the endeavors of regulators to stabilize them, due to strong demand and overcapacity reduction, experts said.

“From now on to the end of the heating season next spring, coal prices will not show a downturn trend, with demand rising continually....

DB2
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Coal prices in China may continue to rise during the upcoming heating season, despite the endeavors of regulators to stabilize them, due to strong demand and overcapacity reduction, experts said.

“From now on to the end of the heating season next spring, coal prices will not show a downturn trend, with demand rising continually....

DB2


-----------------------

In another thread I was pointing out that population growth is a formidable opponent to the goals of the progressives. My argument was crushed by the elitists who explained that the projected 3.5B population growth would be absorbed with no CO2 impact through the miracles of renewable energy technology.

So what we have here is China, with a growing population, also being the worlds leading manufacturer of solar, the worlds leader of installed solar capacity, and also leading the world in installing new solar capacity, yet the Chinese demand for evil coal continues to rise. hmmmm.
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Don't mistake a short term bump in demand and congestion in supply with the longer term trend. China's coal demand has decreased 3 years running and they continue to take measures to reduce consumption. Right this moment there is a pinch in the supply while winter demand is ramping up, but futures show declining price anticipating the continued demand reductions and that the temporary supply issues will be resolved.

https://phys.org/news/2017-02-china-coal-consumption-falls-y...
"
China's world-leading coal consumption fell for the third straight year in 2016, government data showed Tuesday, as the planet's biggest carbon emitter struggles to break its addiction to the heavily polluting fuel.

Coal consumption fell by 4.7 percent year-on-year in 2016, and the share of coal in the country's energy mix slipped to 62.0 percent, down 2.0 percent year-on-year, the National Bureau of Statistics said in a report.

Overall coal production also fell, dropping 9.0 percent to 3.41 billion tonnes in 2016.

The data suggests that "coal consumption probably peaked around 2014," according to a statement from environmental group China Dialogue.
"

And more recent coverage of the bump in prices as the winter heating season approaches:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-prices/divergi...

"
China’s physical thermal coal prices strengthened on Thursday as traders worried about logjams at ports even as futures investors bailed out at their fastest pace in months after Beijing signaled it was ready to take more steps to boost supplies.

It is relatively unusual for the physical and futures markets to go in opposite directions and the divergence reflects conflicting views in the world’s top coal consumer about the outlook for the fuel ahead of the winter heating season.

In recent years, coal prices have been roiled by Beijing’s tough measures to curb excess capacity and shutter polluting industries, whilst this year the government has rushed to ensure supplies of the fuel that also accounts for the majority of China’s power generation.
...
Industrial demand is also expected to fall as factories from aluminum smelters to steel mills curb capacity as part of the government’s stringent measures for improving North China’s notorious air during the winter.
"
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Don't mistake a short term bump in demand and congestion in supply with the longer term trend. China's coal demand has decreased 3 years running and they continue to take measures to reduce consumption. Right this moment there is a pinch in the supply while winter demand is ramping up, but futures show declining price anticipating the continued demand reductions and that the temporary supply issues will be resolved. - BenSolar

-----------------------

Thanks for that information Ben. As usual, there is more to the story. My gut tells me that PV cannot be so effective as to offset both modernization of current population PLUS growth in that population. So I looked around and found this.

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/03/31/chinese-co2-emis...

Why has Chinese emissions growth slowed?

The simple fact is that growth in coal consumption has stopped. In fact, coal consumption declined at around 1% per year on average since 2013. This is in stark contrast to the rapid growth of around 10% per year in the 2000s.

Oil and gas have continued to grow strongly, as have non-fossil energy sources. The non-fossil energy sources are dominated by hydropower, but nuclear, solar, and wind power have considerable growth rates, albeit from a low level.

The Chinese emissions story is really a coal story. The growth in non-fossil energy sources in China has been truly impressive, but don’t let this cover up the more complex story about coal.

Why has coal consumption declined?

One important point is that growth in total primary energy consumption has slowed. This is really driven by a weakening economy, GDP growth rates are much lower now than they were in the 2000s. Less economic activity, means less energy consumption.


The measures that the Chinese are taking may not be all that voluntary and the claims that renewables can offset population growth remains a big question.
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IEA Says Southeast Asia Will Keep Coal Demand High
www.powermag.com/iea-says-southeast-asia-will-keep-coal-dema...
The International Energy Agency (IEA) says the need for cheap electricity in Southeast Asia will drive global demand for coal for power generation through 2040, even as many countries continue to retire coal-fired plants and cancel projects for new coal facilities....The agency said about 100 GW of new coal-fired power generation capacity is expected to come online in Southeast Asia by 2040, increasing the region’s installed capacity to about 160 GW....

A report this week by Wood Mackenzie, a UK-based research and consulting firm with offices worldwide, including five in the U.S., said thermal coal imports by Southeast Asia will more than double to 226 million metric tons by 2035, up from 85 million metric tons today. The group said imports into Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, and other parts of South Asia will jump to 284 million metric tons during that period, a 72% increase from this year’s levels.

At the same time, Chinese imports of coal—China in 2016 again became the world’s top importer of coal, overtaking India—will drop about 40% over the next two decades as the country ramps up its use of other energy sources, including wind and particularly solar, where it dominates the world market in terms of installed solar capacity and the production of solar panels....

Kiah Wei Giam, a principal analyst for coal and gas markets at Wood Mackenzie, this week at the Singapore International Energy Week said: “Coal is still the most affordable technology in power generation,” despite “pushback in coal development” due to concerns about pollution.

DB2
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http://www.powermag.com/iea-says-southeast-asia-will-keep-co...
The agency said about 100 GW of new coal-fired power generation capacity is expected to come online in Southeast Asia by 2040...

--------------------------------------------

Assuming an 85% capacity factor, and an average thermal efficiency equal to that of US coal-fired plants, those 100 GW of new coal capacity will put 742 million tonnes of CO2 in the air every year. This is a little less than Germany's combined yearly CO2 emissions, or about 2% of global CO2 emissions.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en/corporate/pdf/energy-ec...

- Pete
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Assuming an 85% capacity factor, and an average thermal efficiency equal to that of US coal-fired plants, those 100 GW of new coal capacity will put 742 million tonnes of CO2 in the air every year. This is a little less than Germany's combined yearly CO2 emissions, or about 2% of global CO2 emissions.

===========================================

You need to redo your calculation:

1. New coal plants would have a higher thermal efficiency than the old US coal fired plants.

2. New coal fired plants would be operating at 90% capacity factor as a minimum.

3. Germany's coal power generation CO2 emissions are about 340 million tonnes in 2016.

jaagu
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Germany's coal power generation CO2 emissions are about 340 million tonnes in 2016.

I believe the statement was "less than Germany's combined yearly CO2 emissions".

Speaking of Germany, they are still working on a new government after the recent elections.

Coal Standoff Hinders Merkel's Push for Next German Government
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-27/coal-standoff-hin...
A clash over climate change between two of Angela Merkel’s potential government partners escalated to the point that the German chancellor had to step in to tone things down. With the Greens calling for an end to coal power generation in Europe’s biggest economy by 2030 and the pro-market Free Democratic Party balking, competing interests erupted into the open after the latest round of talks on forming Germany’s next government....

“There’s a huge potential for conflict over energy and climate,” Claudia Kemfert, an economist at the German Institute for Economic Research in Berlin, said by phone. The FDP appears to be equivocating on Germany’s climate targets “and it’ll be extremely difficult if they can’t reach a consensus on that,” Kemfert said. While all parties agreed in principle this week that they want to uphold the Paris climate accord, the FDP is pressing for a commitment to curb government measures to promote renewable energy, which help make German power prices the second-highest in the European Union after Denmark’s....

“We’ll have to work hard to reach an agreement, but I still don’t think it’s impossible,” Suding said.

DB2
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Coal on the rise in China, US, India after major 2016 drop
www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/06/26/coal-rise-china-us-i...
The world's biggest coal users — China, the United States and India — have boosted coal mining in 2017, in an abrupt departure from last year's record global decline....Mining data reviewed by The Associated Press show that production through May is up by at least 121 million tons, or 6%, for the three countries compared to the same period last year....

Coal's fortunes had appeared to hit a new low less than two weeks ago, when British energy company BP reported that tonnage mined worldwide fell 6.5% in 2016, the largest drop on record. China and the U.S. accounted for almost all the decline, while India showed a slight increase. The reasons for this year's turnaround include policy shifts in China, changes in U.S. energy markets and India's continued push to provide electricity to more of its poor, industry experts said....

China has committed to capping its greenhouse gas emissions by 2030, and some have suggested it might accomplish that up to a decade earlier. Xizhou Zhou, a senior energy analyst with IHS Markit based in Beijing, said the recent uptick in coal production that the AP identified raises doubts about such optimism...."Coal consumption will continue to increase, mainly driven by Asian countries," Zhou said. "We're seeing a recovery starting this year and an increase until the mid-2020s before you see coal plateau globally."....

Despite the announced cancellation or suspension of 100 coal plants, others remain under construction, meaning consumption of coal for power will continue to rise, Zhou said. Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and Pakistan also are building new plants.

DB2
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Coal on the rise in China, US, India after major 2016 drop

DB2

Then there are these fellows. It would seem they have over promised a tad when they shut down clean nuclear and 'discovered' that the replacements were unreliable. So now they are building new coal plants to keep the lights on .... brilliant! }};-@




http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/france-german...

Germany

Unlike France, Germany is much more reliant on renewable energy and fossil fuels for its electricity generation than on nuclear power. That is because Germany decided to retire its nuclear units and promote renewable energy instead after the tsunami hit Japan’s nuclear reactors in Fukushima. While Germany gets 27.3 percent of its generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy, it is also heavily dependent on coal and natural gas for base-load power and to back up its intermittent wind and solar power, generating over 50 percent of its power from fossil fuels. (See chart below.)

Germany’s plan is to shutter all of its nuclear units by 2022 and to have renewable energy provide 40 to 45 percent of its generation by 2025 and 80 percent by 2050[ii]—up from 30 percent in 2025. Replacing nuclear power with renewable energy has proven difficult, however, mainly due to the intermittency of wind and solar power. When wind and solar are not available to generate electricity, German power buyers turn to coal. In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.[iii]

Germany has over 20 gigawatts of lignite-fired electric generating capacity operating as of the beginning of 2015,[iv] generating about 25 percent of its electricity last year.[v] Lignite, also called brown coal, has the highest carbon dioxide emissions per ton when burned–a third more than hard coal and three times as much as natural gas.[vi] It is Europe’s most abundant and least-expensive domestic fuel, especially when located close to power plants. Germany also uses hard coal, which generated about 18 percent of its electricity.[vii]

... Germany’s plan to reduce carbon dioxide emissions includes renewables replacing coal as well as its nuclear power, but its coal-fired generating industry refuses to go away.



https://energytransition.org/2017/02/germanys-to-complete-ye...

Germany to complete yet another coal plant

by Craig Morris 01 Feb 2017


... but our former Bad Boy is racing the electoral clock to move too far ahead on cleaning up before the two newly joined right wing parties can undo the ... er ... damage. Unfortunately Alberta is going to make some of the same mistakes as the US in replacing coal with Nat gas and thinking Nat gas will remain cheap after everyone is burning it for base load power. Alberta has committed to phasing out coal ... 20 years before Germany's 2050. That leaves them only 12 years to go which is far more difficult to lie about than 32 years.

Tim


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/alberta-carbon-plans-difficu...

ANALYSIS: Alberta is greenest it's ever been under the NDP and that will be tough to undo
6 months into carbon plan, Alberta's changes look made to last, no matter what party governs province


By Kyle Bakx and Tracy Johnson, CBC News Posted: Jul 03, 2017 5:00 AM ET

Alberta's NDP government hasn't wasted much time in bringing its climate change policies into effect.

In the past six months, Albertans have started to pay a carbon tax on gasoline and home heating and they have been eligible for subsidies on LED light bulbs, insulation, windows and solar panels. The coal phase-out has been negotiated, and an auction is underway to bring more renewable power to the province.

The provincial government has been galloping through the implementation of its plan, almost as though there is a deadline to hit. Which there may well be.

...

Coal phase-out

Although the carbon tax gets the most attention, the key element of Alberta's climate policies is the phase out of coal-fired electricity by 2030.

Phasing out coal packs the biggest punch for reducing the province's emissions and has largely been negotiated, although at a hefty price tag.

Alberta committed to pay $1.36 billion to three companies to shut their coal-fired plants early, contracts that cannot be broken under a new government.

Layered on top of that are federal regulations that require the phase-out of coal by 2030. And then there is the economics of power generation. Alberta's two largest coal power producers have chosen an earlier phase-out of their coal-powered plants to natural gas because of price.
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In the first half of 2017, Germany's CO2 emissions are estimated to have increased 1.2%. CO2 emissions are supposed to be going down, not up.

https://www.platts.com/latest-news/electric-power/london/ger...

The transport sector accounted for the lion's share of the increase -- up 5 million mt on the year driven by gains for petrol (up 2.5%), diesel (6.5%) and kerosene (8%), the influential Berlin-based think-tank said.

Within the power generation sector, a 5.1 million mt drop from reduced coal usage was offset by a 2.3 million mt gain for lignite as well as 2.9 million mt gain for natural gas, it added.

----------------------------------------------------

As I have pointed out before, no one is really addressing the CO2 emissions in the transportation sector. In the US, CO2 from petroleum (gasoline, diesel fuel) is the largest source. Natural gas is #2, and coal is #3.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/renew_co2.cfm

- Pete
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no one is really addressing the CO2 emissions in the transportation sector.

I wouldn't say that.

Obama made large increases to the CAFE mileage requirements, and also put a lot of money into helping the EV and plug-in hybrid industry get started.

Numerous countries are talking about ending sales of ICE powered vehicles in the not-too-distant future. EVs have come a very long way in the last 10 years, and in another 10 they should be in a position to shoulder a significant part of the load. It's not the kind of change that happens overnight or in a couple years, but is certainly feasible over longer time frames.

Combination of shifting to EVs and to clean power to fill up the batteries seems to be best long term plan.
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Obama made large increases to the CAFE mileage requirements...
-------------------------------------------------

Maybe those standards are not yet in full effect, but the consumption of gasoline is as high as ever. August 2017 product supplied was 302.9 million barrels, which is an all-time record for one month. I don't see it trending down, yet.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&...

Total petroleum products appear to be slowly trending up as well, though still not at the same levels as 2005 or so.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&...

The new tax proposal will cut the EV tax credit, though the whole package has a long way to go through congress for the final version.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/06/carmakers-rushing-to-defen...

- Pete
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Maybe those standards are not yet in full effect, but the consumption of gasoline is as high as ever. August 2017 product supplied was 302.9 million barrels, which is an all-time record for one month. I don't see it trending down, yet.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&......


There is a rebound effect to consider, as mileage goes up, miles driven also increases...
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Maybe those standards are not yet in full effect,

That is correct. They aren't and I'd say it's likely Trumps EPA will delay or cancel them, like he's doing with most of Obama's environmental policies.

Australia has already shown us what a mess can be made of the energy markets if leadership and policy lurch back and forth from laissez faire to different regulations and incentives.

Trump is going to screw up progress as much as he can. Look forward to 4 years of delay with lasting repercussions. Sad!
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Maybe the felled trees can be sent to the Drax power plant.

German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-court-a...
A court in western Germany says an ancient forest near the Belgian border can be chopped down to make way for a coal strip mine. Cologne's administrative court ruled Friday against a legal complaint brought by the environmental group BUND that wanted to halt the clearance of much of the Hambach forest.

DB2
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German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine


Gross.
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German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine

Gross.

================================================

Not as gross as the Canadian tar sands destruction of forests.

Germany’s Tagebau Hambach is a large open-pit mine North-Rhine Westphalia. It is operated by RWE and used for mining lignite (brown coal with CO2 emissions about the same as regular coal). Begun in 1978, the mine's operation area in 2011 is 39 km².
-------------------------------------
Canada’s Alberta oil sands region operations has cleared or degraded 7755 km² (almost two million acres) of boreal forest since the year 2000.

7755 km²/ 39 km² = 199

Canada’s oil sands operations are 199 times worse environmentally than Germany’s lignite mining operations.

jaagu
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German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine

BenSolar: Gross.

jaagu: Not as gross as the Canadian tar sands destruction of forests.

And you two see nothing wrong with windmills killing our raptors - golden and bald eagles - to extinction?

The hypocrisy from the fraud of global warming is breathtaking!


-=Ajax=-
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The hypocrisy of your fraud is breathtaking!
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www.washingtonexaminer.com/coal-to-the-rescue-as-record-cold...
Coal-fired power plants are king again as sub-zero temperatures sent demand for heating and electricity soaring....Coal outpaced both natural gas and nuclear power plants in the PJM market, which extends from the Midwest to Washington, according to real-time updates provided by the grid operator PJM Interconnection.

Coal provided nearly 20,000 megawatts more electricity throughout the day Friday than its primary rival natural gas and over 10,000 megawatts more than nuclear power plants....

The PJM breakdown looked like this: Coal at 45,842 MW; nuclear power at 35,514; and natural gas at 25,927. Renewables provided 3,086 MW....The surge in coal electricity production is expected to remain high going into next year because of a bump in the price of natural gas....

U.S. coal production for the year totaled 760.4 million short tons, which is 6.4 percent higher than a year ago, according to the Energy Information Administration's last weekly coal report for 2017.

DB2
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U.S. coal production for the year totaled 760.4 million short tons, which is 6.4 percent higher than a year ago, according to the Energy Information Administration's last weekly coal report for 2017.
DB2

-----------------------------------------------

Cold snaps can happen. CO2 doesn't change the tilt of the Earth in December. Through October of this year, electricity production from coal is still down slightly from 2016 and 2015.
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

Year to Date, Coal fired generation
2015: 1,175,676 GWh
2016: 1,033,461
2017: 1,009,899

For the first half of 2017, coal exports were up 55% over 2016.
https://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t7p01p1.pd...

Increased exports to China, India, Japan, as well as Europe for the Jan-Jun period, compared to 2016.

- Pete
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Coal-fired power plants are king again as sub-zero temperatures sent demand for heating and electricity soaring... Coal outpaced both natural gas and nuclear power plants in the PJM market, which extends from the Midwest to Washington...
Coal provided nearly 20,000 megawatts more electricity throughout the day Friday than its primary rival natural gas and over 10,000 megawatts more than nuclear power plants... U.S. coal production for the year totaled 760.4 million short tons, which is 6.4 percent higher than a year ago... DB2


Step back and ask yourself, why is coal so dominant?

Because Coal is the lowest cost and most efficient fossil fuel. Nothing beats coal because:

1. Coal on a BTU basis is the least expensive fossil fuel.

2. And because coal burns at a higher temperature than other fossil fuels, it also has the highest Carnot Thermodynamic efficiency.

3. A coal-fired boiler operates at a temperature range where heat transfer by radiation is dominant and this is another advantage unique to coal.

4. A coal fired boiler has the highest Thermal Efficiency of all fossil fuels - exceeds 90%

5. That is why coal is the lowest cost producer of electricity.

6. On a BTU basis, Natural Gas was/is tied to the price of oil that can head to the stratosphere fairly quickly. Remember oil a $150/barrel?

7. Our manufacturing base needs generic BTUs and coal is the lowest cost supplier of such BTUs.

In the meantime renewables, the so-called viable replacement of coal, remain unaffordable failures - unreliable, useless, filthy and expensive - Not to mention the fact they are killing our raptors to the point of extinction.


-=Ajax=-
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Putin urges Russia to boost coal, energy exports
www.nasdaq.com/article/putin-urges-russia-to-boost-coal-ener...
President Vladimir Putin said on Monday that Russian energy companies should expand their export infrastructure and seek new markets for their products, including coal, with China seen as particularly important....

Speaking at the same meeting, Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak said that Russia plans to produce around 420 million tonnes of coal this year, surpassing a Soviet record high.

DB2
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A court in western Germany says an ancient forest near the Belgian border can be chopped down to make way for a coal strip mine. Cologne's administrative court ruled Friday against a legal complaint brought by the environmental group BUND that wanted to halt the clearance of much of the Hambach forest.

Police clear protesters from Hambach Forest
www.dw.com/en/police-clear-protesters-from-hambach-forest/a-...
Several hundred German police officers moved into Hambach Forest in western Germany on Wednesday to expel dozens of protesters. The forest, located between the cities of Aachen and Cologne, hosts one of the country's biggest open-pit coal mines. The RWE energy company, which owns the forest, has intended to clear some 100 hectares (247 acres) of land in the Hambach Forest to mine for lignite — a brown, low-grade coal considered to be one of the most polluting fossil fuels — only to see its efforts repeatedly disrupted by environmental activists.

DB2
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From DB2's previous post:
Several hundred German police officers moved into Hambach Forest in western Germany on Wednesday to expel dozens of protesters. The forest, located between the cities of Aachen and Cologne, hosts one of the country's biggest open-pit coal mines.
https://www.dw.com/en/police-clear-protesters-from-hambach-f...

-------------------------------------------

The euronews link below has an interesting time-lapse movie showing the progress over the years of the Hambach mine. It shows the excavated area sort of rotating clockwise to uncover fresh lignite.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/08/17/watch-the-unstoppable-adv...

If the coordinates given for the Hambach forest in wikipedia are correct, the main mine is going to be expanding to the west, to absorb the forest located there.

https://goo.gl/maps/2YG7sWdvvGC2
------------------------------------------

Chop down the ancient forests. Dig up the land to extract the coal. Burn the coal to emit CO2, as well as other pollutants. But the most important thing, by far, is to shut down nuclear power.

- Pete
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Chop down the ancient forests. Dig up the land to extract the coal. Burn the coal to emit CO2, as well as other pollutants. But the most important thing, by far, is to shut down nuclear power.

=========================

Do you ever realize how stupid these statements sound.

You rant against natural gas as being almost as bad as coal. Then you rant against coal. Then you conclude its all about shutting down nuclear. Your opinions are worthless.

Germany is not the CO2 problem in the world. I have told you and other 1000 times. You just can not face facts.

You never want to talk about the real polluters: China, America and India. I do not think you ever posted anything about these countries chopping down the ancient forests, digging up the land to extract coal and burning coal to emit CO2, as well as other pollutants. The countries burn many times more coal than Germany.

China - 50.7% of world total in 2017
USA - 8.9%
India - 11.4%
Germany - 1.9%

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/en/corporate/pdf/energy-ec...

All four of these countries are slowing down or shutting down nuclear power. USA is shutting down nuclear power just like Germany. China and India have stalled on their huge plans for nuclear and have instead put more emphasis on renewables.

He hates Germany so he nit-picks what Germans do while ignoring China, USA and India. He is the proverbial nitpicker.

jaagu

P.S.- Japan only has 7 of its nuclear power plants operating. The other 50 are shutdown for safety.
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Kosovo opts for coal plant despite criticism
www.reuters.com/article/us-kosovo-energy/kosovo-opts-for-coa...
After decades of relying on lignite, Kosovo has been told it needs to phase the energy source out, despite having 14 billion tonnes of reserves, the fifth largest in the world....“The World Bank has recommended to us to have a 400 MW solar park, a 170 MW wind park and a 350 MW battery storage park,” Valdrin Lluka, Kosovo’s Minister for Economic Development, said.

“We don’t have that luxury to do such experiments in a poor country such as Kosovo. It is a major risk. It is in our national security interest to secure base energy inside our territory,” he told Reuters.

Other Balkan countries rely on coal to produce power, with Serbia and Bosnia generating 70 percent and 60 percent respectively in ailing coal-fired plants, and both are in the process of adding new coal capacities.

DB2
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Viet Nam's May coal imports rise 57%
www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/...
Vietnam imported 3.86 million mt of coal in May, comprising mainly thermal coal and coking coal, surging 57% from the same month in 2018....

Between January and May, Vietnam imported 17.20 million mt of coal, rising 104% from a year earlier....

DB2
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www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/25/g20-nations-trip...
G20 nations have almost tripled the subsidies they give to coal-fired power plants in recent years....The bloc of major economies pledged a decade ago to phase out all fossil fuel subsidies....China and India give the biggest subsidies to coal, with Japan third....

The researchers totalled the financial and tax subsidies given for mining coal and building and maintaining coal-fired power plants, including investments by state-owned companies. They found the average annual amount increased from $17bn in 2014 to $47bn in 2017. In contrast, the subsidies for coal mining halved, from $22bn to $10bn.

DB2
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More Fake News about coal receiving subsidies - From The Guardian:

G20 nations have almost tripled the subsidies they give to coal-fired power plants in recent years....

Question: How come electrical prices are rising - more than double and triple - when you subsidize wind and solar? No answer.

How come coal produces the lowest cost electricity on the planet? No answer.

Besides, coal can stay on line for 2 plus months after a major disaster like an earthquake.

Conclusion: Coal is a rock solid foundation of our infrastructure while wind and solar are useless and unreliable instruments of the Global Warming fraud.


-=Ajax=-
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India expects coal capacity to swell by a fifth in three years
www.energylivenews.com/2019/08/05/india-expects-coal-capacit...
India expects coal-fired power capacity to grow by 22% in three years. That’s according to the Chief Engineer at the country’s Federal Power Ministry, Ghanshyam Prasad, who Reuters reported as stating coal capacity is likely to reach 238GW by 2022.

India’s Coal Minister, Pralhad Joshi previously said annual coal demand rose by 9.1% during the year ending March 2019, noting the figure hit 991.35 million tonnes, driven primarily by utilities, which accounted for three-quarters of total demand....

India’s electricity demand rose by 36% in the seven years up to April 2019, while coal-fired generation capacity during the period rose by three-quarters to 194.44GW. Pralhad Joshi said despite the growth rate in thermal capacity outpacing electricity consumption in the last few years, more coal-fired plants will still be needed in the future to meet growth.

DB2
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India expects coal-fired power capacity to grow by 22% in three years.

India’s Coal Minister, Pralhad Joshi previously said annual coal demand rose by 9.1% during the year ending March 2019, noting the figure hit 991.35 million tonnes, driven primarily by utilities, which accounted for three-quarters of total demand....


Now if a certain large hegemonic nation were not trying to blockade Iran, perhaps Iran could export oil to India in sufficient quantities and low enough prices that India would not need to increase coal burning to produce the needed electricity. I do not know the climate and wind conditions in India, but perhaps solar and wind could displace some of the carbon-based energy sources.
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Now if a certain large hegemonic nation were not trying to blockade Iran, perhaps Iran could export oil to India in sufficient quantities and low enough prices that India would not need to increase coal burning to produce the needed electricity.

Did you mean natural gas? At any rate, India would want to use a lot of coal because it mines the stuff. Last year (2018) was a record year for Coal India Ltd. (which I believe is government owned) -- some 567 million tonnes.
www.coalindia.in/en-us/performance/physical.aspx

DB2
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India never accepted the Global Warming fraud.

India expects coal capacity to swell by a fifth in three years... annual coal demand rose by 9.1% during the year ending March 2019...

And this makes sense because:

1. Coal on a BTU basis is the least expensive fossil fuel.

2. And because coal burns at a higher temperature than other fossil fuels, it also has the highest Carnot Thermodynamic efficiency.

3. A coal-fired boiler operates at a temperature range where heat transfer by radiation is dominant and this is another advantage unique to coal.

4. That is why coal is the lowest cost producer of electricity.

In the meantime renewables like wind and solar, remain unaffordable failures - unreliable, useless, filthy and expensive - Not to mention the fact they are killing our raptors to the point of extinction.


-=Ajax=-
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China coal mine approvals surge despite climate pledges
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-climate/china-c...
Approvals for new coal mine construction in China have surged in 2019, government documents showed, with Beijing expecting consumption of the commodity to rise in the coming years even as it steps up its fight against smog and greenhouse gas emissions.

Long-term cuts in coal consumption are a key part of China’s energy, environment and climate goals, but the fivefold increase in new mine approvals in the first-half of 2019 suggests China’s targets still provide ample room for shorter-term growth....China’s energy regulator gave the go-ahead to build 141 million tonnes of new annual coal production capacity from January to June, compared to 25 million tonnes over the whole of last year, Reuters analysis of approval documents showed....

Beijing aims to raise the share of non-fossil fuels in its overall energy mix to 15% by the end of next year from around 14.3% currently....

DB2
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In Japan, 21 new coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 12.6 GW is expected in the next decade.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/japan-coal-plant/factbox-japa...

When these plants go on-line, assuming an 82% capacity factor (the CF indicated by IEA information) and the highest thermal efficiency of 45%, I figure this 12.6 GW will emit around 65 million tonnes of CO2 per year.

From the IEA database, Japan got 6.4% of electricity from solar and 0.7% from wind in 2018.

Page 22 of document:
https://www.iea.org/media/statistics/surveys/electricity/mes...

From the IEA link, Japan still gets 71% of its electricity from coal, oil and natural gas. Nuclear is up 141% compared to last year (through May), so that is one bright spot.

- Pete
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At any rate, India would want to use a lot of coal because it mines the stuff. Last year (2018) was a record year for Coal India Ltd. (which I believe is government owned) -- some 567 million tonnes.

India to surpass US as world's second largest coal producer this year
www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/...
Coal production continues to increase in India and the country is likely to surpass the US as the world's second largest coal producer this year, according to KPMG partner Niladri Bhattacharjee. The country is projected to produce roughly 815 million mt in fiscal year 2019-2020, up from 730 million mt in FY 2018-2019....

As India's economy grows, Indian power demand continues to rise, driving the increase in coal production. The country has an average kWh/capita rate of 1,149 compared with 4,280 kWh/capita in China and 12,830 kWh/capita in the US....

Singareni, also known as SCCL, is projected to produce 67 million mt in FY 19-20, while Coal India, the other government-backed miner, is projected to produce 660 million mt. Commercial mines are projected to produce 83 million mt. The government has set a production target of 1 billion mt by fiscal year 2024-2025, of which Coal India is projected to produce 880 million mt.

DB2
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India to surpass US as world's second largest coal producer this year
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-ne...

----------------------------------------

It can be emphasized that this is domestic production. India has already surpassed the US in coal consumption back in 2015. As described in the S&P Global article, India imports a significant amount of coal.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...

Coal consumption, MTOE

**** US India
2014 430.9 387.5
2015 372.2 395.3
2016 340.6 400.4
2017 331.3 415.9
2018 317.0 452.2

China, of course, remains the #1 consumer of coal, and will be doing so for the foreseeable future.

- Pete
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Coal production continues to increase in India and the country is likely to surpass the US as the world's second largest coal producer this year...
---
It can be emphasized that this is domestic production. India has already surpassed the US in coal consumption back in 2015.


And the difference between production and consumption is met with imports.

Coal imports by Indian power plants are growing at the fastest rate in five years
https://qz.com/india/1710880/indian-coal-imports-rise-as-pow...
The country’s electricity generating firms are expected to import up to 74 million tonnes of the fossil fuel in the current financial year ending March 2020....

Coal imports to produce electricity have already risen by five million tonnes year-on-year in the April-July period, at the end of which they stood at a total 23 million tonnes. In the rest of the fiscal year, they are expected to increase by another 10-12 million tonnes over their previous levels, said Vivek Jain, director at India Ratings. This would result in an annual growth of over 19%, the highest in at least five years....

Though weak sales of automobiles and consumer goods have impacted industrial demand for electricity, rapid electrification of rural households by the government has ensured that the overall demand for power remains healthy, the outlook said. In the April-July period, national electricity demand grew 6.7% year-on-year.

DB2
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Renewable Energy Boom Can’t Dim Coal Outlook in Southeast Asia
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-30/renewable-energy-...
There’s just no stopping coal in Southeast Asia. Surging investments in wind and solar energy won’t be enough to shake the fuel’s dominance in the region for decades to come, according to the International Energy Agency.

Coal demand is expected to double to almost 400 million tons a year by 2040, the agency said in its Southeast Asia Energy Outlook published Wednesday. That’s 2.5% higher than its forecast from two years ago, even as renewable power capacity is seen more than tripling through 2040.

“Coal is rather resistant because it is affordable,” said Keisuke Sadamori, IEA’s director for energy markets and security....Even though new renewable energy capacity is forecast to be installed at about twice the rate of coal through 2040, fossil fuels will still represent about 75% of total energy demand in 2040, according to the IEA.

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This year, India’s power plants may consume less coal for the first time in a decade
https://qz.com/india/1742462/coal-consumption-by-indias-powe...
From April to October this year, coal consumption by thermal power plants declined by 2.3 million tonnes compared to the corresponding period last year....This can be attributed to the unexpected rise in generation from hydro and nuclear power projects this year....

This season’s monsoon rains in India have been the heaviest in 25 years. As a result, hydro projects generated about 96 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity in the first half of this financial year, 9.8% more than what the central electricity authority (CEA), the government’s planning arm on electricity systems, had estimated earlier. In the same period, nuclear power stations generated 24 TWh of electricity, 11.45% more than the CEA’s estimates. India’s nuclear plants are running at 80.69% of their overall capacity, an improvement of nearly 20% over “last year when two nuclear plants had been under maintenance for around four months,” Nainan said....

Moreover, India’s ongoing economic slowdown has also hit power demand....The slowdown in the economy has also impacted coal demand from India’s steel plants, the second biggest consumers of the fuel....

DB2
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VIETNAM'S BURGEONING COAL DEMAND
www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/...
"Imports of coal into Vietnam would be about 40 million mt in 2019 and should exceed 50 million mt in 2020," said Andy Bui, vice-president at Vietnam's An Viet Phat Energy. Vietnam's coal imports are estimated to reach 80 million mt by 2025 and 110 million mt by 2030, according to Bui.

While thermal power generation accounts for the major share of coal consumption in Vietnam, demand from other industries like cement manufacturing and users of steam in the paper as well as dyeing industry was also seeing significant growth.

DB2
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BloombergNEF: clean energy investment in developing nations slumps as financing in China slows; coal burn surges to record high
www.greencarcongress.com/2019/11/20191126-bnef.html
New investment in wind, solar, and other clean energy projects in developing nations dropped sharply in 2018, largely due to a slowdown in China. While the number of new clean power-generating plants completed stayed flat year-to-year, the volume of power derived from coal surged to a new high, according to Climatescope, an annual survey of 104 emerging markets conducted by research firm BloombergNEF (BNEF)....

The majority of new power-generating capacity added in developing nations in 2018 came from wind and solar; however, the majority of power to be produced from the overall fleet of power plants added in 2018 will come from fossil sources and emit CO2. This is due to wind and solar projects generating only when natural resources are available while oil, coal, and gas plants can potentially produce around the clock.

DB2
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This is due to wind and solar projects generating only when natural resources are available while oil, coal, and gas plants can potentially produce around the clock.

--------------

This is due to wind and solar projects generating only when natural resources are available while oil, coal, and gas and nuclear plants can potentially produce around the clock.

Intentional omission??
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Good catch Big Hairy.

This is due to wind and solar projects generating only when natural resources are available while oil, coal, and gas and nuclear plants can potentially produce around the clock.

The harsh and ugly reality of wind and solar is that they do not produce electricity when you need it.

Can you imagine turning on a light at home and having a computer voice tell you "Sorry, but the wind is not blowing right now. Please try again later!"

And that is why, by the way, wind and solar are the most expensive electrical sources on the planet - And that is why South Australia pays $0.50 per kwh!

Wind and solar renewables is simply a fraud that relies on subsidies and it is a setup to provide the grid with very expensive electricity when the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining.


-=Ajax=-
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In Japan, 21 new coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 12.6 GW is expected in the next decade.

Japanese coal-power push vexes environmental groups
www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/feb/04/japanese-coal-power-...
It is one unintended consequence of the Fukushima nuclear disaster almost a decade ago, which forced Japan to all but close its nuclear power program. Japan now plans to build as many as 22 new coal-burning power plants at 17 different sites in the next five years....The Yokosuka project has prompted unusual push-back in Japan, where environmental groups more typically focus their objections on nuclear power....

Japan relies on coal for more than a third of its power-generation needs. And while older coal plants will start retiring, eventually reducing overall coal dependency, the country still expects to meet more than a quarter of its electricity needs from coal in 2030....Coal consumption has been rising for decades, as the energy-poor country, which is reliant on imports for the bulk of its energy needs, raced to wean itself from foreign oil after the oil shocks of the 1970s....

Together with natural gas and oil, fossil fuels account for about four-fifths of Japan's electricity needs, while renewable sources of energy, led by hydropower, make up about 16%. Reliance on nuclear energy, which once provided up to a third of Japan's power generation, plummeted to 3% in 2017.

DB2
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Moreover, India’s ongoing economic slowdown has also hit power demand....The slowdown in the economy has also impacted coal demand from India’s steel plants, the second biggest consumers of the fuel....

Carbon emissions by India’s steel sector to triple by 2050
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/indl-goods/svs...
India’s steel industry is set to more than triple its carbon footprint by 2050 as demand for the metal in the world’s second-biggest producer soars. Carbon dioxide emissions from the steel industry are projected to jump to 837 million tons over the next three decades from 242 million tons now as India’s demand for steel more than quadruples to about 490 million tons....

It will also contribute more than a third of the nation’s total fossil fuel combustion emissions from 12% currently. India currently has 977 steel plants....

DB2
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Carbon dioxide emissions from the steel industry are projected to jump to 837 million tons over the next three decades from 242 million tons now as India’s demand for steel more than quadruples to about 490 million tons....
--------------------------------------

The increase of 600 million tons of CO2 is about equal to all of Canada's yearly CO2 emissions from energy sources. And this is just in India's steel industry. What about the increases in coal consumption from electric power plants?

- Pete
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https://endcoal.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/BoomAndBust_2...
For the fourth year in a row, most leading indicators of coal power capacity growth declined in 2019, including construction starts, amount of capacity per- mitted for construction, and amount of capacity in pre-permit development, according to the Global Coal Plant Tracker....

Despite the decline in coal plant development, the coal fleet grew in 2019 by
a greater amount than in 2018. The uptick was primarily due to an increase in plants going into operation in China, the result of a permitting binge from 2014 to 2016. Outside of China, the global coal fleet overall shrank for the second year in a row as retirements exceeded commissioning....

In China, the amount of capacity in pre-construction development increased for the first time since the central government began placing restrictions on new coal plant proposals and permits in 2016. The increase comes as the power industry in China continues to advocate for a capacity target in the upcoming five-year plan that would make room for up to 200 new coal-fired generating units by 2025.

DB2
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Despite the decline in coal plant development, the coal fleet grew in 2019 by a greater amount than in 2018. The uptick was primarily due to an increase in plants going into operation in China, the result of a permitting binge from 2014 to 2016.

World Energy Investment 2020
www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-investment-2020/key-finding...
Although investments in coal power are down in many parts of the world, global approvals of new plants in the first quarter of 2020 (mainly in China) were at twice the rate seen in 2019, and there is a long pipeline of projects under construction.

DB2
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Worldwide coal production and consumption is down and will continue its decline for year to come. Coal is a half-dead horse limping along.

Jaak
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From the August 2020 IEA 'Key World Energy Statistics 2020':
www.iea.org/reports/key-world-energy-statistics-2020

1973 2018
World total energy
supply (Mtoe) 6.1 14.3

Coal 24% 27%

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Dubai builds first coal power plant despite pledging lowest carbon footprint in the world by 2050
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/dubai-coal-fired-power-plan...
A new wonder is rising in the southern desert of Dubai against the backdrop of Persian Gulf beaches, but it's not another skyscraper to grace the futuristic sheikhdom. Instead, it's one of mankind's oldest power sources gaining its own space on the oil-rich Arabian Peninsula — a coal-fired power plant....

“Dubai was really saying we're far too exposed on gas imports, those could be interrupted by all kinds of things, the cost is very high and so we have to do something else to diversify our fuel supply and bring down the total cost,” said Robin Mills, the CEO of Qamar Energy....

For years in Dubai, nearly 100% of all power came from natural gas. While the new Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Solar Park provided just over 3% of demand last year, it still leaves the city-state dependent on gas....Enter the coal plant. The Hassyan power plant is being built in part by China, which describes the plant as a “major engineering project of the Belt and Road Initiative”....

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Dubai builds first coal power plant despite pledging lowest carbon footprint in the world by 2050
----------------------------

Dubai is in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Unit 1 at the Barakah nuclear plant in the western part of the country was recently synchronized to the grid.

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/UAEs-first-react...

The 4-unit Barakah plant (South Korean designed and built) will have a combined capacity of 5.38 GW, and at 138,100 GWh in total domestic generation last year, the Barakah plant will be able to supply 30% of total production at current usage rates. The problem is the UAE is growing, and will need more generation resources in the future. So perhaps they feel they need to have some coal plants to meet demand.

- Pete
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Alova et al. modeled electricity production in Africa for 2030. While African generation is currently 80% fossil-fuel based, some have predicted that future growth (generation is expected to double this decade) will leapfrog fossil fuels.

However, this study predicts that "the share of non-hydro renewables in electricity generation is like to remain below 10% in 2030".

A machine-learning approach to predicting Africa's electricity mix based on planned power plants and their chances of success
www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00755-9

DB2
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Well if the Chinese might come and offer to build out Africa with cheap solar. That would upset the study.

Jaak
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Alova et al. modeled electricity production in Africa for 2030. While African generation is currently 80% fossil-fuel based, some have predicted that future growth (generation is expected to double this decade) will leapfrog fossil fuels. However, this study predicts that "the share of non-hydro renewables in electricity generation is like to remain below 10% in 2030".
---
Well if the Chinese might come and offer to build out Africa with cheap solar. That would upset the study.


IIRC, they are -- but their solar projects would have to catch up with their coal projects.

Chinese cash funds African coal plant building despite environmental concerns
www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/chinese-cash-funds-african-coal...
China is continuing to fund coal-fired power plants across Africa despite increasing concern about their environmental impact. This month a state-owned company said it would step up efforts to get a major project in Zimbabwe back on track....Late last month the construction giant Sinohydro flew 223 employees to southern Africa....The Chinese government is funding up to 85 per cent of the project through the Exim Bank of China....

Besides Zimbabwe, Chinese lenders are funding the construction of at least eight coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 6.4 gigawatts (GW) in South Africa and four others producing 3.2GW....Work has also started on a 350MW plant in Morocco, and projects in Ghana and Malawi are also under consideration.

In total, 11.55GW of coal-fired power plants, funded by Chinese lenders, are operating or under construction in Africa....Shearer said China was the biggest source of financing for coal projects in Africa....

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www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-04-12/mexico-is-edgi...
The president has halted new renewable projects, mocked wind farms as “fans” that blight the landscape, and poured money into state oil company Petroleos Mexicanos, including $9 billion for construction of a new refinery....

Lopez Obrador’s devotion to fossil fuels and rejection of cleaner energy at a time when most nations are moving in the opposite direction has dismayed environmentalists, who warn that Mexico will be unable to meet its emission reduction commitments under the Paris climate agreement, as well as business leaders, who warn that energy costs will rise because coal and gas cost about twice as much as wind and solar....

Lisa Viscidi, an energy expert at the U.S.-based think tank Inter-American Dialogue, said the president’s goal is to “return their monopolies” by bringing the energy sector under state control — even if that means promoting dirtier fossil fuels and contributing more carbon emissions. “All of these things have been sacrificed for the goal of energy sovereignty,” she said.

DB2
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Can't blame Mexico...

right now they have chronic shortage of gas and diesel due to crappy refineries that poop out....so new ones are needed.

It's not like Mexico's population is going down, either....... more people, more demand for gas and diesel. and NG.....

you think Mexico likes blackouts any more than the US does?

They also need to keep up their oil industry - oil to export is money in the treasury to spend on other programs like health care.


t.
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Can't blame Mexico...

IIRC, during the big Texas freeze exports of nat gas to Mexico were cut off.

DB2
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The following are Mexico's fossil fuel production and consumption numbers for 2019, from the BP database. I found a few items interesting.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/c...

Oil
Production (including natural gas liquids): 1918 thousand barrels per day
Consumption (all liquids): 1740 thousand barrels per day

Production is higher than consumption, but not by much. Mexico's total oil production has been declining for several years. Total oil production was 55% higher in 2009, compared to 2019.
----------------------

Natural gas
Production: 34.0 billion cubic meters
Consumption: 90.7 billion cubic meters

Mexico actually imports most of its natural gas consumption! From the map and table on page 43, these imports come from the US. As with oil, Mexico's natural gas production has been in decline. Consumption, however, is increasing.
----------------------

Coal
Production: 0.26 exajoules (EJ)
Consumption: 0.51 EJ

Coal is the smallest fossil fuel share in terms of energy, but Mexico still needs to import about half of its coal consumption.
------------------------

Other energy sources (2019)
Mexico has a small amount of nuclear and hydro power capacity, but fossil fuels still dominate. Non-hydro renewables are also small, but 2019 did see a large jump in electricity production from renewables. These are mostly wind and solar.

Nuclear: 0.1 EJ
Hydro: 0.21 EJ
Other Renewables: 0.35 EJ
----------------------

- Pete
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Mexico has a small amount of nuclear and hydro power capacity, but fossil fuels still dominate. Non-hydro renewables are also small, but 2019 did see a large jump in electricity production from renewables. These are mostly wind and solar.

===========================================

Mexico has so much potential in solar power. Solar could provide 25% electricity generation in 5 years if Mexico were to take the action needed. However, the fossil fuels industry would not allow that to happen.

Jaak
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However, the fossil fuels industry would not allow that to happen.

Jaak


---------------

Damn them for being more reliable and less expensive. Damn them all to Hell.
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However, the fossil fuels industry would not allow that to happen.

Jaak

---------------

Damn them for being more reliable and less expensive. Damn them all to Hell.

==========================================

LOL! The Texas polar vortex showed how expensive fossil fuels no reliability - over $50 billion in damages in one week.

Jaak
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Mexico has so much potential in solar power. Solar could provide 25% electricity generation in 5 years if Mexico were to take the action needed. However, the fossil fuels industry would not allow that to happen. Jaak

Nonsense.

What do you do when a cloud obstructs the sun right when you need the electricity? No answer.

What do you do at night after sunset? No answer.

Wind and solar need watt for watt back gas and diesel generators. So...

Who is going to buy and pay for the construction of these backup gas and diesel generators? No answer.

Who is going to maintain these backup gas and diesel generators? No answer.

Who is going to pay to operate of these backup gas and diesel generators? No answer.

Who is paying for the fuel of these backup gas and diesel generators? No answer.

Bottom line: Wind and solar energy are not free. They are the most expensive and most unreliable energy sources on the planet. Just look at the Texas massive blackouts courtesy of wind energy earlier this year.


-=Ajax=-
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Poland to buy coal assets from utilities, create state energy company in 2022
www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/...
Poland announced a plan late April 16 to separate coal assets from state-controlled utilities and transfer them to a state-owned National Energy Security Agency (NABE), freeing up power companies to access financing for future investments in natural gas and renewable energy....Coal-fired cogeneration plants would remain with the utilities with a view to them being modernized towards low and zero-emission sources....

Poland is home to the EU's largest hard coal reserves and to date the fuel is the main source of electricity generation, accounting for almost 80% of the total in March. The EU Emissions Trading Scheme, which obliges generators to buy CO2 allowances for their emissions, has largely made coal plant unprofitable without heavy subsidies. Sasin said carbon emission costs already exceeded the cost of purchasing coal....

The government has agreed with coal mining unions to shut all thermal coal mines by 2049 but it has yet to agree a social agreement with the unions of the country's largest state coal miner PGG, over severance and early retirement conditions nor a schedule for closing individual pits.

DB2
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