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No. of Recommendations: 2
Where do you get them fixed?

In my driveway on the one rare occasion when it needed it.


Seeing it's one of the worst ranked vehicles when it comes to reliability, it will need it.
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Thanks for a very informative 'consumer report". The one thing I've always wondered about is what it costs for a "fill-up" at one of those recharge stations, and how long do those take?

RayB
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No. of Recommendations: 3
...what it costs for a "fill-up" at one of those recharge stations, and how long do those take?...

I've never used one. Haven't needed to yet. Just charge at home.

However, there are many charging options available. There are Tesla Superchargers scattered around, mostly at "destinations". The ones around here are usually at big shopping malls or tourist-type places. The nearest one to where I live is about 12 miles away at a Mall. It has 12 chargers. They will charge your Tesla up to 80% capacity from empty in about 30 minutes. You're never empty. And you don't charge it up to 100% anyway, unless you're going on a long trip and need the full range, which I never do. An acquaintance took a trip a little over 300 miles, and stopped twice for 20-minute recharges.

You don't have to use Tesla superchargers. There's an app called "Plugshare" you can download onto your phone. It will show you all the chargers available. Where I live they are all over the place. Some of the Government ones are free. They are installed one-or-two at a time at government places like town halls or community centers.

If you're curious enough go ahead and download the app. You can look around anywhere to see what's available.

This app (and the Tesla app) will show you all the chargers available and offer trip planning so you can go on a long road trip and plan your stops ahead. Just like gas stations.

At home I usually run it down to about 30% and charge it back up to about 80%. I have a 50-amp system in my garage, and that charge takes ~4 hours. My charger is just a 50amp 14-50 socket (like for a dryer or an electric range). That's all you need.

I know of some folks who have no home charger, and just charge it up at or near their work. Like I said, there are chargers all over the place.

The cost will vary depending on the cost of electricity where you are. To charge my car from say 30% to 80% would cost a couple of bucks tops.

Rip
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No. of Recommendations: 1
An acquaintance took a trip a little over 300 miles, and stopped twice for 20-minute recharges.

That's one of the things that keeps me from EVs. I can drive 300 miles without any stops in my ICE vehicle. I don't want to add 40 more minutes to the trip.

At home I usually run it down to about 30% and charge it back up to about 80%. I have a 50-amp system in my garage, and that charge takes ~4 hours. My charger is just a 50amp 14-50 socket (like for a dryer or an electric range). That's all you need.

What did your charger cost?

PSU
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What did your charger cost?

Like I said in the OP, about $200.

Rip
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Like I said in the OP, about $200.

I missed that part. Do you know what it would have cost if you didn't have a friend that provides a discounted rate?

PSU
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I dunno. I admit I was fortunate.

The parts included the 14-50 socket and a couple of 50-amp breakers. My house has 125-amp service, so I didn't need anything really expensive.

It took the electrician about 2 hours to do the job, and the permit cost ~$20.

So the parts and permit were about $100 and the labour(note Canadian spelling) about another $100.

I'm sure you can estimate what it might cost for you.

Cheers,

Rip
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No. of Recommendations: 4
I can drive 300 miles without any stops in my ICE vehicle.

How often do you drive 300 miles without any stops?

--Peter
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I can drive 300 miles without any stops in my ICE vehicle

I didn't really answer your question fully.

If you want to spend the bucks you can buy the Tesla-made charger for your home or garage or wherever.

It will cost about $500 bucks and (I'm told) ~$500 to install, since it has to be internally wired in place and is a lot of fiddly work for the electrician. It will charge faster than the simple socket that I got. Didn't need it.

Also the car I got has a range of 240 miles. There are other Tesla3 models with ranges out to 300 miles and some of the models S's can get out to 400 miles. They're working on extending that, too.

Cheers,

Rip
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How often do you drive 300 miles without any stops?

On long trips, I do that often. The only reason I stop is for gas. If I had a range of 500 miles, I'd drive without stopping.

PSU
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If you want to spend the bucks you can buy the Tesla-made charger for your home or garage or wherever.

It will cost about $500 bucks and (I'm told) ~$500 to install, since it has to be internally wired in place and is a lot of fiddly work for the electrician. It will charge faster than the simple socket that I got. Didn't need it.


It may be more expensive for me since I've maxed out the breaker box that I currently have.

PSU
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Congrats - I bought a M3+ 3 months ago here in NH. I've driven mostly "good" sedans (Nissans, VWs), and the M3+ is hands down the best car I've driven. Smooth (if a little stiff), quiet, powerful.
I got a 50A circuit installed for the same $ you paid. It recharges my 80 mile round trip commute in 2.5 hours.
The power... the power. It'll do 0-60 in <5 seconds, but what I really enjoy is the power at the top is similar. Somebody blindly merging in, about to cut you off? Punch it and it's past them in a couple of seconds with no hesitation. Of course, you're then going 80 in the right lane quickly.
Service will be an issue for me, the nearest dealership is 60 miles away - but supposedly theyll come here if I need them to. Don't get in an accident - parts are months backlogged.
Supercharging is incredible, and higher rate when you are really low, 450miles/h range. Enough range to the next one in about 15 minutes.
Not spending $250 a month on gas is huge... and not polluting and all that.
Range will drop significantly driving up to Whistler, so be careful with that ;-)

I do wish the dashboard was more interesting... love the "ipad" but they could have put a speedometer and range meter behind the steering wheel.
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The charging rate is much faster when battery is low; I did a recent 250 mile road trip. I was down to 18 miles range and got back up to 175 miles in 15 minutes for $4+. Net is about 1/4 of gas cost (at $2.60 a gallon).
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Aha, Flying Circus stopping in from the MI board where I first logged on 21 years ago.

You're right about the power. It accelerates with the same g-force at 50 mph as it does at rest. Neato.

Service? You don't need no stinkin' service!

The maintenance manual requires (and I quote it here in it's entirety):

Every 6250 miles, rotate the tires

Replace the brake fluid every 25000 miles

Replace the battery coolant every 4 years or 50,000 miles.

That's it. No oil. No radiator coolant. No belts. No spark plugs. No nuthin'.

What a great car.

Cheers,

Rip
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I've been in two friends' Teslas recently. I'm a car guy, and there's no doubt in my mind that electric cars are the future. Especially for multi-car households. ICE may hold some advantages for quicker refueling on road trips, but an electric is fantastic for zipping around town on your daily commute.

One was a Model S P100D. Wow. Ridiculously quick. Even a bit disorienting. Easily rivals the quickest car I've ever been in (a heavily modified 800+ hp 911 Turbo) from a standstill. Both cars are fully capable of accelerating at the limit of tire grip all the way to go-directly-to-jail speeds. The Porsche just sounds a hell of a lot meaner doing it. ;)

The other was a Model 3 long range dual motor. This one I also drove. Which may have impressed me more than the model S. Smaller, lighter, and more efficient. And deceptively quick - it accelerates quicker than our 911 Carrera S (which is nearly a perfect sports car). With a low center of gravity from the battery weight in the floor, it handles far better than I expected, and powers out of turns with an authority that's hard to match with an ICE. The instant electric torque is just staggering.

There's really only one thing holding me back. I love the Tesla powertrain, but I am far from in love with their cars themselves. Fit and finish has come a long way, but they're still not on par with the best traditional cars. Repair delays give me pause. The spartan model 3 interior doesn't work for me, and the exterior of their cars doesn't stir any emotion either (full disclosure, I have a 911, a Cayman, and an S2000 in the garage). If Tesla wanted to make another cool looking roadster more in line with the original Tesla Roadster, I'd probably be begging them to take my money. I'm also very interested to see how the Porsche Taycan turns out once they're released later this year.
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To answer the question of cost to fill up more...

In my Model 3 I get about 330 miles for a full charge and if I were to actually fill up from 0 to 75 Kwh the cost at a Supercharger (where I live) would be $19.50. This is at the CA supercharger rate of $0.26/kwh. My rate at home is lower...about $.22/kwh or $16.50. However most of the country has a rate closer to $.10...or $7.50 for a fill up. I have solar panels so my rate is more like $.10 (or $0.07 including solar rebates) so that is about $5 for 330 miles...or about 1.5 cents per mile.

Yes, when you are charging up quickly on a long trip you are paying more for this.
Note that the Tesla supercharger rates vary across the country based on local electricity prices and whether they are allowed by law to charge per kwh or per minute. When they must charge per minute they have different tiers based on the charging rate you are getting.

Other notes on the superchargers.
The ones most widely deployed are version 2 at 120 kw. (Compare to L2 chargers many have at home or work which are 6 kw). They have just started to upgrade many of these to 150 kw. However, the full 120 or 150 is shared by two cars at a station, so you might get 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 of the full rate people park incorrectly or more than half the stalls are full.

A couple of months ago they announced version 3 superchargers and they have been adding these to the network. These go up to 250 kw and are not shared. A couple of big 40 stall stations have these already.

They also started implementing a new software feature in the cars so that the battery can be pre-conditioned for a few minutes while driving before you arrive so you can charge faster for longer times...shortening your overall time; so you can charge from about 20% to 80% to (IIRC) in about 15-20 minutes. The claim is a peak rate of 1000 mph.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/tesla-supercharger-v3-kw-capa...


Mike
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If Tesla wanted to make another cool looking roadster more in line with the original Tesla Roadster, I'd probably be begging them to take my money.

You do know about version 2 or the Roadster?
620 miles of battery range...250+ mph...zero to 60 in 1.9 sec.
Due next year, but will probably be in limited supply.
$200K - $250k.


https://www.tesla.com/roadster

Mike
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You do know about version 2 or the Roadster?
620 miles of battery range...250+ mph...zero to 60 in 1.9 sec.
Due next year, but will probably be in limited supply.
$200K - $250k.


Yes, quite familiar. But they're currently only taking $50k deposits for a $250k "launch edition". A bit rich for my blood. Hence my point: "more in line with the original", which I believe was originally offered well under $100k. Seriously, if Tesla put the Model 3 dual-motor powertrain in a good looking 2-seater with a nice battery pack and a real interior, I'd probably place a deposit tomorrow.
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On long trips, I do that often.

You’re dodging the question. Of course you could drive 300 miles at a crack on a long trip. The question is how often you take long trips.

If I had a range of 500 miles, I'd drive without stopping.

300 miles is 4 hours at 75 mph. 500 would take 6 hours at that speed, or 8+ hours at 60. At some point, you need a break for safety. I suspect 500 is at the edge of that safe envelope.

—Peter

PS - one of my cars has a 500 mile range. They’re readily available if that’s important to you.
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Tesla has a new roadster coming.

https://teslacarusa.com/new-tesla-roadster-2019-specs/

Alas, my roadster days are over, but this one looks like a real honey.

Cheers,

Rip
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Not spending $250 a month on gas is huge... and not polluting and all that.

How is your electricity generated? And what resources are used for battery manufacture and disposal?
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{{How often do you drive 300 miles without any stops?}}

At least twice a month or so.


c
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I'm not a regular reader of this board, but can't resist a thread talking about Teslas. I am not an owner. My husband is still resisting the idea of a car that we can't charge at home (we have only on-street parking and nowhere to install a charger. I keep telling him that we don't have a gas station at home either.) Anyway... my dad, with the encouragement of my youngest stepson, bought his first Tesla a couple of years ago. And upgraded it soon thereafter. He currently has a Model S 100D. The first one was a Model S 85D (I think). Both cars are, without question, the most spectacular vehicles I have ever driven. And I come from a long line of Honda Civics, so I should know! ;-)

A quick story, because stories are worth it: My daughter is 16. She rarely asks her grandfather for anything. But she quietly asked him one day a few months ago, "Grandpa, if I have my learner's permit next time we visit, can I drive the Tesla?"

Bless him, Dad said yes. So on one lovely day in early July, we took the Tesla down to a church parking lot in a tiny little village in Door County, Wisconsin, and she sat behind the wheel for the first time. Not just the first time behind the wheel of the Tesla, but the first time behind the wheel of any car at all. And she carefully drove in circles, forward and reverse, and then figure 8s, at about 4mph. And then we took her up to a country road not very far away to give her some practice driving on an actual road. She made it all the way to 10mph.

She loved it, I loved it, Dad loved it. And the car behaved for her as perfectly as it does at any other speed. Also, because they're my family, farting noises and fireplace mode were thoroughly tested.

ThyPeace, a great memory.
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The battery pack for this particular model is 62kw or the equivalent of 1.84 gallons of gas. It will go 240 miles on that.


Well, crap. My '93 Civic can only go 101 miles on that much gas. Of course, it's tank holds 4.34 times that much, so I can go almost 440 miles between "charges." Of course it's not nearly as cool or as nice or as quick. Then again, I picked it up for 1000 USD and all the important stuff works.

Anyway, congrats on your new car. I'm jealous. I kinda want a Tesla too.

xtn
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A good bit of this discussion has been about installing a charger at home. This needs some clarification. The questions are being asked as if there is one solution that fits all

Installing a charger is one option for home charging. The home charger will increase the charging speed somewhat but it is a level 2 charger so the speed only increases from about 30 MPH average to about 48. That's the $500 charger that Tesla sells. Installation would be additional. I do not see the value added by installing the charger verses simply using a NEMA 14-50 outlet.

The 30 MPH charging is accomplished by simply plugging in to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. That is the same outlet that you have for your dryer and your range. So the cost would be parallel to installing that type outlet.

The Tesla charging system is very versatile. It can accept a variety of input voltages and amperages. This allows home charging at slower speeds that are safe for residential wiring as well as speeds up to 1000 MPH at super chargers. It will even charge from the US standard 120 VAC, 15 AMP outlet. Although the charge rate is less than 5 MPH.

US cars are delivered with an ~20 ft. cable that fits into the car's receptacle at one end and an adapter plug at the other, 1 NEMA 14-50 male adapter (like your range chord) and a NEMA 1-15 male adapter (a standard household plug)

A variety of other NEMA standard adaptors are available at $50 each.

J-1772 is the standard that most other manufacturers are using and which most community chargers use. J-1772 is a level 2 charger. It charges at about the same speed as I get at home from a NEMA 14-50 outlet. My car was also delivered with a J-1772 adaptor. This allows me to attach my car to a community charger's cable.

This seems like a lot to grasp all at once. But the learning curve is manageable even for my BabyBoomer, luddite brain. Once I got past it the process so smooth. I love it.

GeeB
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You do know about version 2 or the Roadster?
620 miles of battery range...250+ mph...zero to 60 in 1.9 sec.


LOL! Nobody is going to get a 1.9 second zero-to-sixty time using any current, DOT approved, street legal tires.

xtn
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How often do you drive 300 miles without any stops?

On long trips, I do that often. The only reason I stop is for gas. If I had a range of 500 miles, I'd drive without stopping.

PSU


Man, you have a better bladder and butt than I.

George
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You’re dodging the question. Of course you could drive 300 miles at a crack on a long trip. The question is how often you take long trips.

I'm not dodging it. I make 4 to 5 trips per year of 500 miles or more each way. So that is 8-10 500 mile segments.

300 miles is 4 hours at 75 mph. 500 would take 6 hours at that speed, or 8+ hours at 60. At some point, you need a break for safety. I suspect 500 is at the edge of that safe envelope.

When I drive to my mother's Florida residence, it's 800 miles one way. I'll drive the whole way myself with minimal 5 minute gassing stops. Yes, I push the envelop on safety.

PS - one of my cars has a 500 mile range. They’re readily available if that’s important to you.

Cars do not fit my needs.

PSU
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Now for my charge cost experience.

We have had our Model 3 Long Range Rear Wheel Drive since December, 2018. I'm not a record the milage every refill kind of guy so I can only offer broad strokes. We both work in the public schools so our driving habits change in summer. Duke Energy in North Carolina is our electric supplier. With the bill they provide a comparison to the previous year usage.

During the school year we drive an average of about 80 miles per day. Our bill has increased somewhere between $1.50 and $2.00 per day so our fuel cost has been 2-2.5 cents/mile.

We have only taken one trip that required paid Super Charging. That trip was from Bristol Indiana to North Carolina. We charged in Dayton, Oh and Charleston, WV.

Here is the actual report for those chargings as they copy from the TESLA site:

Charleston, WV
6/18/2019 2:11PM
$11.88
Energy
54 kWh @ $0.22/kWh
$11.88
View Receipt
Dayton, OH
6/18/2019 8:40AM
$5.74
Power Tier 1
41 min @ $0.14/min
$5.74
View Receipt

Granted, we are not business travelers so minimizing travel time is not a priority. We charge at meal/break time. But we have found that on that trip as well as on the trips that were in our 6 mo. free charging package that our travel time is not noticeably impacted.

GeeB
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That's it. No oil. No radiator coolant. No belts. No spark plugs. No nuthin'.

To be fair, only the oil change is regular maintenance. Coolant is 100k miles, transmission flush is 100k miles and spark plugs are 125k miles on my vehicle. If someone drives 12k miles per year, that's 8 years before a coolant or transmission flush and 10 years before new spark plugs.

PSU
at 206,000 miles on his vehicle
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Cars do not fit my needs.

I was using "cars" generically. A sedan doesn't fit all of my needs, either. It's really hard to fit a wheelchair and a mobility scooter in a Civic. So I have a full sized van.

To be specific, my Sprinter van gets at least 20 mpg at highway speeds (let's say 70 mph or less) and has a 25 gallon tank. But I've got the fuel hungry engine. If you get the 4 cylinder, people report as much as 30 mpg. That would almost get you door to door with no stops.

This is in the largest interior capacity van available in the US. So when you fall asleep at the wheel as you approach the 10 hours driving mark, you can feel comfortable in the fact that you're going to wipe out whatever poor sucker happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless it's an 18 wheeler, of course.

--Peter

PS - Unfortunately, the 4 cylinder engine was only available in 2014 - 2016 model years, so you'll have to buy used. Mercedes is trying to get an updated version of this engine to meet the US emissions requirements, so hopefully it will be available again soon.
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So when you fall asleep at the wheel as you approach the 10 hours driving mark, you can feel comfortable in the fact that you're going to wipe out whatever poor sucker happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless it's an 18 wheeler, of course.

I have driven 10 hours straight but I'm not explaining myself right. I don't take long rest breaks at some rest stop. If I am tired, I pull off onto the berm of a highway and let my wife or daughter drive. If it's my wife, she's been asleep since about 5 miles from the start of the trip. She doesn't need 30 minutes at a rest stop to prepare for driving.

PSU
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I love these kind of questions because they remind me of questions that must have been asked 110 years ago when automobiles started to come out and replace horses and buggies.

1915: How is gasoline made? And what resources are used for engine manufacture and parts manufacture and disposal?

The bottom line is, the energy generated for and consumed by EVs is absolutely cleaner across the spectrum ("value stream") of generation, construction and supply than the similar value stream for gasoline engines. The pollution of our environment by the extraction of oil and refinement, followed by leaking gas, oil, transmission fluid, AND CO2 exhaust from hundreds of millions of ICEs is much, much, much, less.
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I love these kind of questions because they remind me of questions that must have been asked 110 years ago when automobiles started to come out and replace horses and buggies.

1915: How is gasoline made? And what resources are used for engine manufacture and parts manufacture and disposal?


And that invalidates them how? Do you have any data or references to support your claim?

To be fair, I do believe that electricity can be generated and transported more efficiently and with less pollution in general, but not in all cases and it is certainly not accurate that there is no pollution as the OP suggested. A significant amount of electricity is still generated from burning coal in some parts of the country.

Battery manufacture and disposal is a little more tricky. I do believe the tech will change as more demand increases, but currently production and disposal of electron storage would be very harmful to the environment on a scale as large as needed to replace ICE.
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Well, there go the sales of buggy whips...


Onward with natural gas power generation, hydro-electric, solar, windmills, and even safe, nuclear plants and dump all those nasty coal plants...

Along with it, keep pushing for fusion power, dump the internal combustion of olde...
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Another bit of future development is the Sales channel. Simple, simple, direct, without the ages old gaming being done in the current system. There lies a lot of the background opposition to the Tesla in particular.

Overseas in the past few weeks, we saw many Teslas on thew road in Norway, Scotland, London..

Another sign of the times, the London Cab. We took one from the play Hamilton, back to our condo. All electric! Roomy, good range, the driver said he charges it at home off his shift if he's on the next day, or leaves it at the lot to be charged for the next driver if he's off.. Plans are to also market them in the US.. Not clear who the UK builder is, but it can be a major game changer...

Whenever I have a chance to talk with Tesla owners, I make a point to thank them for their support of the technology. They are obviously paying a bit of a premium for these machines, a tad beyond my needs, means at the moment, and they deserve a congratulations...

weco
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I expect Tesla prices to plummet as the market catches up with them. They may have been the ones that broke the barrier to electric vehicle mass production, but competitors had the advantage of learning from their stumbles and setbacks. There are already others than just Prius
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(hit Submit accidentally)... so here's the complete post:

I expect Tesla prices to plummet as the market catches up with them. They may have been the ones that broke the barrier to electric vehicle mass production, but competitors had the advantage of learning from their growing pains,stumbles and setbacks. There are already others than just Prius in the queue, and all it takes is a VW beetle type of product to flood the market and upset the status quo. Tesla will, for a while, remain in the upper strata, both because they have seniority, and because the name carries a prestige with it.

RayB
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I make a point to thank them for their support of the technology. They are obviously paying a bit of a premium for these machines,

Good point here. And although it is a premium, it is still well below the cost to market for these cars which are highly subsidized by credits other manufacturers have paid them to not have to build cars on their own. I'm sure there will be economies of scale for this tech at some point and we can only hope that when there are fewer makers of ICE cars to support the new tech they will be in line with what consumers are willing to pay.
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"I make a point to thank them for their support of the technology. They are obviously paying a bit of a premium for these machines, a tad beyond my needs, means at the moment, and they deserve a congratulations."

And, in return, they should be thanking the American taxpayers for funding their $7,500 tax credit.

Or, at least those rich Tesla buyers, the only segment that has such a large tax liability for which the credit helps to defer.
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Overseas in the past few weeks, we saw many Teslas on thew road in Norway, Scotland, London..

Once you look for a specific item, you will see more of them.

When I see a Tesla, I think how much their symbol makes me think of an IUD.
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Where do you get them fixed?
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Where do you get them fixed?

In my driveway on the one rare occasion when it needed it.

GeeB
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Where do you get them fixed?

In my driveway on the one rare occasion when it needed it.


Seeing it's one of the worst ranked vehicles when it comes to reliability, it will need it.
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I owned a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. Right on time, the electric battery stopped recharging at the end of the 7-year warranty. USD $4,000 to replace the battery (I did not do it). What happens when the Tesla batteries stop accepting a charge? Is that an issue? Thanks for the informative posts.
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What happens when the Tesla batteries stop accepting a charge?

I have read that Tesla's battery warranty is 8 years. Replacements are ~$12k, depending on capacity.

Neil
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Doesn't seem out of line with the cost of replacing an ICE or Transaxle/CVT at 7 years and 105k miles. And while it doesn't happen every day, it does happen enough, which I'm sure is the case with Honda batteries. Extremely high failure rates will 'chum' the waters of the class action lawyers resulting in a settlement or extension of the warranty. And choices are made every day to repair or replace older vehicles based on high dollar failures on older cars.
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I owned a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. Right on time, the electric battery stopped recharging at the end of the 7-year warranty. USD $4,000 to replace the battery (I did not do it). What happens when the Tesla batteries stop accepting a charge? Is that an issue? Thanks for the informative posts.

Also, more recent hybrid battery technology is typically modular and cells can be replaced as they fail. Failure of the entire power plant is uncommon.
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USD $4,000 to replace the battery (I did not do it). ....................................

I gotta ask, how much did you spend on the replacement car?


Pete
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