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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wal-mart-to-raise-minimum-...

Wal-Mart to raise minimum wage to $11, offer one-time bonus of up to $1,000—for 20-year veterans
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two thoughts:

Given a tight supply of minimum wage retail help in many areas, their defacto minimum wage may be $11 or more now anyway.

second bit:

WASHINGTON (AP) — In a major policy shift that could affect millions of low-income people, the administration said Thursday it is offering a path for states that want to seek work requirements on Medicaid recipients.

http://start.att.net/news/read/article/the_associated_press-...

In the back of my mind is the thought that, in spite of the demagoguery, the vast majority of able bodied people on Medicaid do work, at minimum wages jobs offered by places like WalMart.

Steve
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In the back of my mind is the thought that, in spite of the demagoguery, the vast majority of able bodied people on Medicaid do work,

The net is a wonderful thing: percentage of non-elderly Medicaid recipients who work.

Nationally, 64% are working full time. Another 13% work part time. Only 22% do not work at all.

This table also lists the percentages by state. The percentage of non-working on Medicaid ranges from some 37% in West Virginia to 14% in Iowa.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-by...

The states that want to implement work requirements and their non-working percentages, for 2016

Arizona, 22

Arkansas, 29

Indiana, 26

Kansas, 16

Kentucky, 28

Maine, 30

New Hampshire, 19

North Carolina, 25

Utah, 16

Wisconsin. 24

Anyone care to discuss how it is that people can work full time here in the shiny city on a hill, and still qualify for medicaid, rather than having employer paid medical or be able to afford medical insurance on their own?

Steve
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Nationally, 64% are working full time. Another 13% work part time. Only 22% do not work at all.

The net is a wonderful thing, part two: Medicaid recipients broken down by age group (elderly, children, adults and disabled).

The previous table showed that, nationally, 22% of adult Medicaid recipients do not work. This table shows that, nationally, 14% of adult Medicaid recipients are disabled.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-of...

So all this screaming is about 8% of Medicaid recipients who are able bodied adults who do not work.

I wonder if there is data on the number of able bodied adults on Medicaid who do not work, that are on Medicaid for more than a few months?

But, in the US' puritanical, punishment oriented culture, it looks good for politicians to beat up on a minority subset of the population.

Steve
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In the back of my mind is the thought that, in spite of the demagoguery, the vast majority of able bodied people on Medicaid do work, at minimum wages jobs offered by places like WalMart.

What's puzzling is that it's so horrible that Walmart (pays so little that these people qualify for government-funded medical care, and the solution is to make sure they have absolutely no option other than government-funded medical care (but put everyone else on it too).
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Anyone care to discuss how it is that people can work full time here in the shiny city on a hill, and still qualify for medicaid, rather than having employer paid medical or be able to afford medical insurance on their own?

A big factor in the high cost is how government-provided or employer-provided medical-care insurance has for decades made most people insensitive to the price of medical care. Providers, of course, prefer to charge more, and if the decision-making clients don't care about cost - because someone else is paying it - the providers are free to do so.

A big factor in the prevalence of medical-care insurance paid for by other people is the fact that a dollar that an employer spends on employee compensation can see over 30 cents go to taxes almost anywhere (and over 50 cents in some cities), leaving less than 70 cents (less than 50 cents in some cities) for the employee to buy medical-care insurance... or the employer can spend the entire dollar on medical-care insurance for the employee. Employer-provided insurance is a legitimate expense to the employer but not taxable income to the employee.
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A big factor in the high cost is how government-provided or employer-provided medical-care insurance has for decades made most people insensitive to the price of medical care.

Leaving aside the Fox Noise talking points that people who have "big gummit" health insurance with overuse it, for a moment, why is it that better paid employees of many large companies *are* provided with employer paid or subsidized medical insurance, but the minimum wage staff is left to apply for government assistance?

Steve
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A big factor in the high cost is how government-provided or employer-provided medical-care insurance has for decades made most people insensitive to the price of medical care.

Leaving aside the Fox Noise talking points that people who have "big gummit" health insurance with overuse it, for a moment, why is it that better paid employees of many large companies *are* provided with employer paid or subsidized medical insurance, but the minimum wage staff is left to apply for government assistance?


Go back to the post you were quoting from and read the paragraph after the one you quoted.

If you need more detail, consider that a low-wage worker is seeing maybe 20 cents - or less - go to taxes out of each dollar while a high-wage worker can easily see double that go to taxes. The tax break on medical-care insurance is simply more valuable to a higher-wage worker. Also, the higher-wage worker doesn't need flexibility with each dollar of earnings to the same extent as the low-wage worker.
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If you need more detail, consider that a low-wage worker is seeing maybe 20 cents - or less - go to taxes out of each dollar while a high-wage worker can easily see double that go to taxes. The tax break on medical-care insurance is simply more valuable to a higher-wage worker. Also, the higher-wage worker doesn't need flexibility with each dollar of earnings to the same extent as the low-wage worker.

I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, so give me a minute to digest this: high wage workers are more deserving of employer paid or subsidized health insurance than low wage workers, because they make more money, while it's beneficial to low wage workers to be fobbed off on the government, where they are attacked by demagogues as leaches on society while the system they depend on for helping cover their medical bills is constantly under attack? Is that your position?

Steve
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I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, so give me a minute to digest this: high wage workers are more deserving of employer paid or subsidized health insurance than low wage workers, because they make more money, while it's beneficial to low wage workers to be fobbed off on the government, where they are attacked by demagogues as leaches on society while the system they depend on for helping cover their medical bills is constantly under attack? Is that your position?

You are free to hallucinate that I said something about "deserving"...

Because of our tax laws low-income people get about a 20% discount on medical-care insurance by having their employer pay for it, while high-income people get about a 50% discount. Also, low-income people need flexibility on how they spend every bit of their limited income, while higher-income people - having more income - can give up some of that flexibility. So even if low-income people got the same discount as high-income people, they would probably be less willing to take increased employer-paid medical-care insurance as opposed to more money.

If you think this is unfair and improper... I agree. I think our tax laws should discourage employer-provided medical-care insurance in nearly-all cases (making exceptions for selected high-risk occupations and employers, such as the military). Because having someone else pay for your medical care is a pretty direct route to higher prices.
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give me a minute to digest this:

Higher-paid workers will have healthcare costs that are less expensive to the employer because the total cost paid by the employer is fully tax deductible, as stated previously. It is *easier* to offer acceptable benefits to higher-paid workers because the plans are reasonable in terms of the total *personal* cost to each of those employees. The higher-paid workers can afford the co-pays, etc *because* they are higher-paid. A $35 co-pay is no big deal for them because they have the income to readily cover such an expense.

On the other hand, the lower (lowest?) paid workers could have a similar type of healthcare plan, but the coverage and co-pays might not be affordable, or even suitable, for them. The healthcare needs of each group would likely be substantively different, so the cost to the employer varies as well.
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Also today WMT shut down 63 Sam’s Clubs. 10,000 canned. Employees didn’t find til they showed up & found the doors locked. Hm i doubt this was run by the public relations dept.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/walmart-abruptly-c...
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The healthcare needs of each group would likely be substantively different, so the cost to the employer varies as well.


Well Duh, why is the cost dumped directly on the employer anyway?

I really know the answer but sort of need a chuckle right now.

Tim
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"A big factor in the high cost is how government-provided or employer-provided medical-care insurance has for decades made most people insensitive to the price of medical care. Providers, of course, prefer to charge more, and if the decision-making clients don't care about cost - because someone else is paying it - the providers are free to do so."

From my perspective, I have to call total BS on this. I've had employer provided health care for over 30 years, but a gun has to be practically placed on my head to get me to see a doctor. Once, in the 90's, I tried waiting out a broken leg for 2 days, to see if maybe,just maybe, it wasn't as bad as I thought. And I know other people who feel the same way about hospital visits. So who in the hell are these people who want to make unwarranted visits to the doctor or hospital ? Do you think that people enjoy going to the hospital ?

( I have since been taught the errors of my ways, annual physicals have been the routine for a few years now )
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So who in the hell are these people who want to make unwarranted visits to the doctor or hospital ? Do you think that people enjoy going to the hospital ?

You do realize you are fighting 20 years of Fox Noise brainwashing about how people will abuse "big gummit" health insurance, running up a big bill, for which the "big gummit" will take *your* money to pay?

Steve
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Once, in the 90's, I tried waiting out a broken leg for 2 days, to see if maybe,just maybe, it wasn't as bad as I thought.

...

( I have since been taught the errors of my ways, annual physicals have been the routine for a few years now )



Gee and I (and my family doc) thought my gangrenous gall bladder was the stupidest thing ever!!! I was quite convinced that it would get better on it's own, she assures me I would have died.

Hmmm just checked on Google, apparently she know more about it than I do? }};-@

Tim
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You do realize you are fighting 20 years of Fox Noise brainwashing about how people will abuse "big gummit" health insurance,

Of course that is not how it works, we spend far less on healthcare, live three years longer and everyone is covered.

Not signed
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Of course that is not how it works, we spend far less on healthcare, live three years longer and everyone is covered.

And the stock USian reply to straightforward facts and data is "but, but ,but...it's socialistic".

Steve
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Of course that is not how it works, we spend far less on healthcare, live three years longer and everyone is covered.


And yet, for some reason, the US still gets Canadian medical tourists.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/estimated-52-000-canad...

Mike
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And the stock USian reply to straightforward facts and data is "but, but ,but...it's socialistic".


Absolutely, do you want affordable healthcare or a pure capitalist early death?

Don't answer that. Y'all have enough other repulsive problems right now.
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And yet, for some reason, the US still gets Canadian medical tourists.

Yes from your link: An estimated 52,000 Canadians — half of those from Ontario — left the country to receive non-emergency health care in 2014, according to a report titled Leaving Canada for Medical Care., note the non-emergency bit, mostly because they can afford to get their boob job done there. My sister got her hip replacement done in Cuba, could have got it free in Canada but it was cheap in Cuba and she spends most of her winters there anyway.


The reason Americans cross borders is because they can't afford care unless they do.

So now that you have made a bit of a fool of yourself do you want to continue? I've been fighting this nonsense for over a decade now, showing up unarmed ... not good.

Tim

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/12/more-american...

More Americans Are Expected to Leave for Medical Treatments
By Tom Burson | December 30, 2016 | 10:55am

...

Looking at the prices, it’s no surprise the CDC estimates between 750,000 and 1.8 million Americans choose to undergo procedures abroad. According to Patients Beyond Borders, an organization dedicated to studying medical travel, Americans going abroad for medical procedures can save anywhere from 20 to 80 percent. In Brazil, for example, surgeries are 20 to 30 percent cheaper, and, in Mexico, savings, on average, reach 40 to 65 percent.

So why are these Americans traveling to places like their southern neighbor for medical procedures? It’s not for dental work or face lifts. The main reason: Cancer treatment.



https://www.quora.com/How-many-Americans-travel-to-Canada-fo...

How many Americans travel to Canada for healthcare and vice versa?

Canadians who travel to the USA for medical purposes only are a small number. In 2014 it was considered to be about 52,000 people or about 0.15% of the population. Mostly they are going for non-critical or non-life threatening issues where there is a longer wait list. The survey is compiled by the Fraser Institute who are a right wing / libertarian think tank. The information that they compile and present would be in keeping with their politics.

One study quoted in this article indicates that 2% of U.S. American adults buy prescription medications from Canadian pharmacies, either in person or over the internet.

...

United States' favorite illegal Canadian import? Prescription drugs
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"And the stock USian reply to straightforward facts and data is "but, but ,but...it's socialistic"."

Tim, Ontario is our neighbor, I'm coming to the conclusion that we have a lot more in common with them than we do with the rest of the US.
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Tim, Ontario is our neighbor, I'm coming to the conclusion that we have a lot more in common with them than we do with the rest of the US.

Some time ago, I proposed that the US west coast and northeast secede from the US and join Canada. Both the departed areas, and the rump US would be happier.

Steve
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Absolutely, do you want affordable healthcare or a pure capitalist early death?

The USian choice is ideological purity: "better dead than red".

Steve....vivid memories of 50s propaganda
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So now that you have made a bit of a fool of yourself do you want to continue? I've been fighting this nonsense for over a decade now, showing up unarmed ... not good.

Yes, Tim, you've been fighting the losing battle over medical health care for a long time.

From Tim's link:

"Canadians who travel to the USA for medical purposes only are a small number. In 2014 it was considered to be about 52,000 people or about 0.15% of the population. Mostly they are going for non-critical or non-life threatening issues where there is a longer wait list. The survey is compiled by the Fraser Institute who are a right wing / libertarian think tank. The information that they compile and present would be in keeping with their politics." [Which doesn't make it untrue, just a fact that your source doesn't like.]

My sister got her hip replacement done in Cuba, could have got it free in Canada but it was cheap in Cuba and she spends most of her winters there anyway.

Cheap and available in less then a decade? Countries with socialized medicine are famous for their long wait times for essential for quality of life procedures and in some cases even life threatening conditions.

So why are these Americans traveling to places like their southern neighbor for medical procedures? It’s not for dental work or face lifts.

Actually a lot (most?) of it is. I've lived in both San Diego, CA and El Paso, TX and in both cases there are Mexican doctors just across the border who specialize in treating American patients. They charge Americans less then the same procedure would cost in the states, but more than they can charge most Mexican citizens.
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

...

Tim, Ontario is our neighbor, I'm coming to the conclusion that we have a lot more in common with them than we do with the rest of the US.



zenbro

America was our neighbour and friend for 150 years, we fought the same wars (albeit late to the show sometimes), crossed the border at will, traded mostly fairly, and helped each other out when needed. Diplomat daughter and I chatted about the relationship last night while watching the news about "immigrants from "&(*^HOLE" countries", we are finding it hard to recognize our former friends lately?

My other daughter's husband is the son of immigrants from India, he was born in Halifax and has (according to his wife) "more university degrees than most", he works for a firm in California from his home office in Vancouver. In June her bank is moving her to the US (Houston) along with her brown husband and three brown grandsons that I love dearly.

I'm worried.

Tim
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My other daughter's husband is the son of immigrants from India, he was born in Halifax and has (according to his wife) "more university degrees than most", he works for a firm in California from his home office in Vancouver. In June her bank is moving her to the US (Houston) along with her brown husband and three brown grandsons that I love dearly.

I'm worried.


Tim,

Houston is not a nice place.

Qazulight
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From my perspective, I have to call total BS on this. I've had employer provided health care for over 30 years, but a gun has to be practically placed on my head to get me to see a doctor.

And if the doctor tells you "treatment A is 90% likely to work, but treatment B is 99% likely to work, and your insurance will cover either," do you ask about the cost? Or do you note that you have a $50 copay - so the price to you is the same either way - and opt for the treatment that is 10% more effective at 10,000% of the cost?
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Of course that is not how it works, we spend far less on healthcare, live three years longer and everyone is covered.


And yet, for some reason, the US still gets Canadian medical tourists.


That could be because there is no socio-economic-racial group that gets systematically inferior health-care outcomes in the US as compared to other highly industrialized countries, if they actually show up at the doctor's office.

The US simply has a greater preponderance of the groups that get inferior outcomes everywhere.

(The US has really horrible infant and childbirth statistics among those whose first contact with a doctor during pregnancy is after labor starts. You can't fix this by changing the medical-care or medical-insurance system, as the large majority of such people already have access to government-paid "free" medical care.)
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Absolutely, do you want affordable healthcare or a pure capitalist early death?

I want affordable quality healthcare.

And making somebody else pay for it doesn't make it affordable, it merely changes who gets soaked for the bill - while sheltering decision-makers from some of the financial consequences of their decisions. Numerous countries with "free" healthcare are discovering they can't afford quality healthcare.

In areas of healthcare where medical-care insurance doesn't usually go, we find that nearly-pure capitalism has driven massive cost reductions - and similarly massive price reductions - while improving quality.

Same as we have in numerous other fields. Food. Electronics. Transportation. Communication.

Where have we NOT seen this happen over the last eighty years or so?

Education. Another area where the norm is that a large share of the bill is paid by someone else, with the bulk of the "someone else" being the government.
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"And if the doctor tells you "treatment A is 90% likely to work, but treatment B is 99% likely to work, and your insurance will cover either," do you ask about the cost? Or do you note that you have a $50 copay - so the price to you is the same either way - and opt for the treatment that is 10% more effective at 10,000% of the cost?"

Except no insurance company works that way. The 10,000% option is always off the table. More likely is that treatment A is 75% effective and treatment B is 90% effective so Treatment A is covered but treatment B is not (or is covered at a different rate - i.e. generic vs. brand name).
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Well Duh, why is the cost dumped directly on the employer anyway?

Tax reasons. You know why.
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>> And yet, for some reason, the US still gets Canadian medical tourists.


The reason Americans cross borders is because they can't afford care unless they do.


No system is perfect, and that was my point.
The demographics of the US and Canada are quite different and this skews any comparisons.

People in the US go to other countries (mostly not Canada) to get lower cost healthcare, not because it isn't available in the US. People in Canada come to the US to get health care because, probably, it is available and they are willing to pay for quicker service.

In both cases the vast majority is for voluntary and/or non-life threatening procedures.

Mike
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No system is perfect, and that was my point.


That was my point as well.

In my early days of listening to the stories on these boards of our death panels and not really knowing what was going on in the two systems a story came up about a Canadian lady billionaire who flew down to California on her private jet to get treatment for breast cancer ... that's how really bad we were according to the pundits. I sort of hung my head in shame while being roasted ... then the truth came out. She had her breast cancer treatment in Toronto, where they did their usual wonderful work ... but flew to California on her private jet for the reconstruction work that they were famous for.

I stopped listening to the stupid lying crap and learned to dig out the facts.

A little irony, I basically grew up (from 17) in the military healthcare system then when I left the military lived in Germany for the next ten years. My first real experience with our system wasn't til a couple years after I got back from Germany at about 55.

Your Turn?

Tim

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/video-shows-discharged-patient-str...
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I want affordable quality healthcare.

Is there any product or service where lack of affordability and quality is acceptable?

Quality is rarely cheap, but expensive doesn't always mean quality.
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Is there any product or service where lack of affordability and quality is acceptable?

Acceptable to whom, is the question.

Government doesn't seem to mind if government-provided education is expensive and of poor quality.

Government does seem to mind if government-provided health care is overly expensive, but is less concerned about poor quality as long as all the correct licensing and reporting checklist items are marked off.
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I basically grew up (from 17) in the military healthcare system

Me too, from 18. After that I've had the same HMO (Kaiser) since then which, IMO, doesn't suffer from lots of the things many in the US complain about*. When I was self employed I paid full price myself. And I even paid myself for a couple of years when my employer didn't have this option.

* I have my own doctor, but can see anyone else as needed.
All specialists, labs etc are all in the same place 2 miles from my home.
Most appointments can be gotten in a day or three...a couple of times in an hour or two.
I'm covered when I'm out of the area, including overseas.
(But I did by medical evacuation insurance when I went on a couple of trips -- such as Amazon cruise and Madagascar)

Mike
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* I have my own doctor, but can see anyone else as needed.
All specialists, labs etc are all in the same place 2 miles from my home.
Most appointments can be gotten in a day or three...a couple of times in an hour or two.
I'm covered when I'm out of the area, including overseas.
(But I did by medical evacuation insurance when I went on a couple of trips -- such as Amazon cruise and Madagascar)

Mike


I have my own doctor as well ... but I haven't met him yet. My former doc quit private practice (end of Nov) and went back to her first love (ER doc) now that her daughter is in university.

Since you mention it the labs etc are 3.1 Km from my front door according to Google Earth.

It takes a bit longer to get an appointment with the family doc but our clinic has a 'walk in' with same day appointments that has access to our on-line medical records if needed.

My supplemental covers travel outside Canada including medical evac though I've never had to test it.

We Canucks generally cannot go to a specialist on our own without a referral from our family doc or the ER, I really don't know the specifics but I suppose it saves on costs and I've never felt it was a problem.

With rare exceptions (certain services not covered by the system) no money changes hands, the docs receptionist bills the system on-line.

Supplemental also covers 80% of prescription costs which is worth a fortune in our family as wife has a long list.

Of course I live in the biggest city in eastern Canada (Halifax), not everyone has the same great access.


Tim
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Providers, of course, prefer to charge more, and if the decision-making clients don't care about cost - because someone else is paying it - the providers are free to do so.

Not so fast Sparky.

I've said/demonstrated this multiple times, the only providers that can/does charge free market prices are plastic surgeons and other such "not covered" procedures. All others have reimbursements set as some percentage of Medicare/Medicaid.

I would love to charge what I think my skills are worth, but it never has nor will it ever happen.

JLC
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So who in the hell are these people who want to make unwarranted visits to the doctor or hospital ?

I would say follow me at work for a few days and it would be drastically eye opening. But HIPPA laws...

I have plenty of stories, some funny, some not. I've seen people in the ER that are there because they are bored and oh look a splinter in my finger. And the comical someone comes rushing in looking for their sister that is in labor, no one here by that name, she was coming here, then the ambulance pulls up with the sister. So we called an ambulance and then beat it here, oh and NOT in labor.

JLC
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And yet, for some reason, the US still gets Canadian medical tourists.

You mean like this one? A premier comes to the USA for heart surgery.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Why-Canadian...

Or this one? Moms coming to USA because of Canada's NICUs, or lack there of.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/10/canada-expectant-mom...

JLC
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(The US has really horrible infant and childbirth statistics among those whose first contact with a doctor during pregnancy is after labor starts. You can't fix this by changing the medical-care or medical-insurance system, as the large majority of such people already have access to government-paid "free" medical care.)

Welcome to my world.

Over New Year's Eve, had the pleasure of taking care of a drug addicted/rehab patient for an emergency c-section for blood pressure issues that just found out she was pregnant about 5 days previous. No prenatal care what so ever. Guessed to be about 30 weeks gestation but definitely undersized. Patient didn't even look pregnant.

This is just one of many stories I can relate. Essentially see this once a week. I don't live in a big town. Can't imagine Los Angeles, New York City, or Chicago.

JLC
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Except no insurance company works that way. The 10,000% option is always off the table. More likely is that treatment A is 75% effective and treatment B is 90% effective so Treatment A is covered but treatment B is not (or is covered at a different rate - i.e. generic vs. brand name).

My sister has a serious but treatable medical condition. However, the insurance company over-rode her doctor's preferred course of treatment by refusing to pay for it unless the insurance company's preferred treatment was tried first. So they tried it, it didn't work, and they went back to what her doctor wanted to do in the first place.

One of the reasons we have such poor medical outcomes in this country is that we have actuaries making medical decisions. Seems like they could at least examine the patient first.
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Or this one? Moms coming to USA because of Canada's NICUs, or lack there of.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/10/canada-expectant-mom...

So an eleven year old business deal to solve a problem by the BC healthcare system is somehow derogatory to the Canadian healthcare system? Just for fun why don't you tell me how the US would have handled a similar problem?

Never mind, I'm tired of this stupid nonsense, you go ploink I no longer discuss this stuff.


Tim
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Hot off the press ... well a month ago but certainly not 11 years ago.

Tim <on that note, I'm out>

https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/the-next-ontario/why...

Our physicians have a responsibility to treat anyone in need — but what happens when a patient skips out on the bill?

Published on Dec 07, 2017 by Tola Afolabi

?American visitors who fall ill in Canada are creating a headache for hospitals in border cities: these patients sometimes skip out on the bill, leaving Ontario hospitals or physicians in the lurch.

“When patients from another country come to one of our emergency departments or urgent care centres, our top priority is to provide them with safe, quality care, regardless of their financial situation,” says Niagara Health spokesperson Steven Gallagher.

Canadian physicians have a responsibility to treat any patient, insured or not, whether they are Canadian, American, or from anywhere else. But this can mean that health-care providers are left chasing down payment long after the patient has gone home.
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Never mind, I'm tired of this stupid nonsense, you go ploink I no longer discuss this stuff.

Congratulations, JLC, you've joined the ranks of those who he's afraid to debate.
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Congratulations, JLC, you've joined the ranks of those who he's afraid to debate.

And we didn't even get to the good stuff.

Who could blame Canada for out sourcing their NICU service? They are expensive to build, staff, and maintain with up to date technology. It must have come as a shock that Canada doesn't take care of all Canadians as advertised.

Speaking of tech, Canada trails in number CT scans available by almost 3:1 (12/1 mil population vs. 34). MRI machines almost a 5:1 (4/mil vs 19/mil).

Hmmm, maybe cancer treatment? Proton beam therapy, which has been around a long time. Canada trail 27:1. Not in per million population but in raw numbers. Canada has 1 machine. Meanwhile, my little town has the first Intensity Modulated Proton Therapy (IMPT) machine. Not in the country, not in North American, but the entire freaking world (when it was installed a couple years ago). My friend that runs the program has connections.

And this doesn't even address the lame reference to Canada doctors "having to treat" travelers that wind up in their healthcare system. News flash, all doctors (at least in non-s***hole countries) have to treat patients in emergency situations, regardless.

Oh well, at least they have hockey.

JLC
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